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Kwak
05-06-2010, 11:02 AM
OK, I've seriously got the heebie jeebies over this. I just pulled a tick of Joey's scalp yesterday as we were leaving Justin's occupational therapy appointment across town. I doubt it was waiting for us in the car but this is the 3rd one in about a month that I've pulled off my kids.

What else can I do? I got him early; none have been engorged with blood. I've sprayed that pet/kid safe stuff in the trees around the house and I'm trying to clean up the landscaping around the house and hopefully drive away all the critters.

Does anybody know what's the best way of keeping ticks under control? I'm actually finding them inside the car and house. *shudders*

Neodaddy
05-06-2010, 11:16 AM
All we ever did was wait out the season and check the kids regularly. We only had wood ticks, so there was little fear of lyme disease. Are yours all wood ticks or do you have deer ticks as well?

D.C. Hughes
05-06-2010, 11:50 AM
OK, I've seriously got the heebie jeebies over this. I just pulled a tick of Joey's scalp yesterday as we were leaving Justin's occupational therapy appointment across town. I doubt it was waiting for us in the car but this is the 3rd one in about a month that I've pulled off my kids.

What else can I do? I got him early; none have been engorged with blood. I've sprayed that pet/kid safe stuff in the trees around the house and I'm trying to clean up the landscaping around the house and hopefully drive away all the critters.

Does anybody know what's the best way of keeping ticks under control? I'm actually finding them inside the car and house. *shudders*

Not sure about driving them away from The Great Outdoors--I'm not too familiar w/your part of PA--closet I've been is Clymer. There might be a product out there that'll do the job--depending upon where they're coming from.

What we'd do in the Army sometimes when going to the field: flea/tick collar around one boot.

I'm more concerned about whether or not you're using the "proper" technique to remove the critters--i.e. tweezers or chemical (I don't remember what--Mein Leibchen just handed me first cup 'o coffeee). The idea, which I assume you know, is to make sure you remove the head/don't leave it attached to the child(s). In the case of the latter, something fairly common (like rubbing alcohol or vaseline--I ask Mum when I get to the hospital later) in most people's houses, it will make the tick pull out and withdraw--not as fast and "satisfying" as yanking the sucker out and stomping it, but effective.

You probably want to call a good pest control specialist as far as the car and the house--could always start by vaccuming the crap out of everything.

57plymouth
05-06-2010, 12:27 PM
If you live in a neighborhood you should contact your HOA. That's about all an HOA is good for, so tell them they need to fumigate the neigborhood.

If you are blessed to not live under some such regime, you should fumigate yourself. You can get foggers and the appropriate chemical from a GOOD hardware store. That means not the big box, but someplace locally owned and operated. If you have them in your car, you have a severe infestation.

Ticks like to live in debris. Time to clear out all the mulch and dead leaves from everyplace in the yard and burn it. Cut your grass extra close. Flea and tick powders are innefective. You need a liquid agent to kill the ticks.

If you are reluctant to mess with the chemicals yourself, call whoever has your termite bond and ask them to treat for ticks.

As someone who has had lyme's disease from a tick bite, you don't want to screw around. Ticks are like snakes and politicians: the only good one is a dead one.

Bjorn74
05-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Master Gardener mode kicking in.

http://ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/ticks
http://ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/pdf/ticks.pdf

Both have prevention information. But they say that ticks are found in the woods and tall grass areas. If you lawn is tall, mow it shorter, at least until the ticks are gone from you and your kids. If you have a dog or cat that goes in and out, check them or, better yet, take them to the vet to be searched and vaccinated from some really nasty viruses. Make sure to keep an eye out for signs of Lyme disease. It's not fun.

You should also give a call to your county Extension (http://extension.psu.edu/counties) where they should have local information that will account for trends and the latest information from medical sources about cases of Lyme. They may even ask you to bring one in for identification.

Kwak
05-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Thanks, 57.

FWIW yesterday I used Purell on the sucker which may have caused him to pull out. He was on there pretty good but after a few seconds of going at him with the keys he came loose. I tossed him out the door into the parking lot. I don't know if she (I hear the only females are the bloodsuckers!) was lying in wait in the van or if she'd paradropped from the tree above the entrance to the building we'd just come out of. I'll be sure to pack the tweezers if there's a next time. Regardless, I'm going to bomb the car and clean it up; the kids have messed it up pretty bad anyway.

As for the stuff I've used to spray the yard/trees, it's one of those liquid bottles that hook up to the garden hose. I made it a point to spray the ground and the sycamore branches in Justin's favorite hidey spot (where he likes to kick off his shoes and socks and crap his pants.) There another spot next to the driveway where we have a huge evergreen that likes to shed its long needles. I could definitely see the resulting blanket of needles underneath as being a prime sanctuary for them. I'll be sure to douse it (again) and sweep them all up. Unfortunately we're not allowed to burn stuff here in Allegheny county.

I'm also hesitant to use harsh chemicals given that my kids are very prone to pick up strange things and put them in their mouths. I try to keep stuff out of their reach but they've proven to be pretty resourceful. The stuff I used claims to be kid and pet safe which is why I bought it but if it doesn't work then I'll be buying my kids high boots and overalls at Wal-Mart or wherever I can find them.

As for what type of tick it is, I took Justin (and the first tick) to the pediatrician after we discovered tucked inside his ear and she took a look at it. she proclaimed that it was not a deer tick, but now I'm second-guessing that. They're about the size of the end of a push pin (the kind you use on bulletin boards) and are dark reddish-brown which a circular mark on their back.

Bjorn74
05-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Seriously. Call your extension and find out what they're experiencing.

http://allegheny.extension.psu.edu/
412-473-2540

They'll be able to tell you what kind it is if you have a photo or drop off the real thing, and they'll know what pesticides work best in your area and safe application technique. You're paying for the service already.

Hockeyfan
05-06-2010, 05:07 PM
It's not just lyme disease that ticks carry. Deer ticks usually. There are others. My boy got one in the ass a week or so ago and the spot is still sore looking. No rings as of yet. It wasn't a deer tick though. Maybe he'll get Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Ahhhhh.

Ticks suck. You go outside. You're likely exposed to ticks. Grass, trees, pine straw and everywhere. They hang on grass trying to get on passing deer.

Education kicking in. LOL. I won't do it.

Neodaddy
05-06-2010, 05:19 PM
It's not just lyme disease that ticks carry. Deer ticks usually. There are others. My boy got one in the ass a week or so ago and the spot is still sore looking. No rings as of yet. It wasn't a deer tick though. Maybe he'll get Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Ahhhhh.

Ticks suck. You go outside. You're likely exposed to ticks. Grass, trees, pine straw and everywhere. They hang on grass trying to get on passing deer.

Education kicking in. LOL. I won't do it.

Got my truck stuck in the back 40 when I lived back in Gimli. Spent an hour or so getting it out. Came home, stripped down on the back porch and pulled about 25 ticks off. Fun, fun, fun!

CTDon
05-06-2010, 05:36 PM
Lima bean anyone?

http://ticbite.com/images/tic_bite4.jpg

Porschephile
05-06-2010, 05:38 PM
This is prime time for ticks fella's. This around when Shawn got four of these buggers on in back below his butt during a day of outdoor games at preschool, gotta watch out. Be extra careful.

D.C. Hughes
05-06-2010, 07:23 PM
I'll be buying my kids high boots and overalls at Wal-Mart or wherever I can find them.

My Mum says:

1) The trousers would need to be tucked into socks and then into boots

2) The ticks will get under the clothes--espec. elastic bands and such--anyway

3) Keep them outta the yard [until #4 is accomplished]

4) Call an exterminator to treat your yard

Bill S
05-06-2010, 07:26 PM
All we ever did was wait out the season and check the kids regularly. We only had wood ticks, so there was little fear of lyme disease. Are yours all wood ticks or do you have deer ticks as well?

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but other ticks carry Lyme's. They also carry a variety of other nasty diseases; the long list includes Babeosis, Bartonella, Erlichosis, mycoplasmas. There are several Lyme variants that don't show up on the standard testing well - as if the standard testing was all that reliable anyways.

I contracted Lyme's back in 2004, had the standard treatment twice, no effect. Stayed sick, unable to work much. Found another doc in late 2006 who knew how to handle it, and I finished with his treatment in mid-2007; we thought I was done...other weird symptoms crept in gradually, and we just recently diagnosed me with Bartonella. Not pleasant, and it can be fatal.

If your kids exhibit any unusual symptoms you really really need to get to a Lyme-literate doc to be checked out. The lab test that the typical family doc runs is pretty useless; there's a company in CA (Igenex) that many Lyme docs use because their criteria for a positive result is much more realistic than the standard one (which used CDC disease tracking criteria, despite the CDC saying to not use their epidemiological standards to diagnose the disease). As a result, a high percentage of people who would score positive on the Igenex test get a negative result on the CDC-based test and get no effective treatment, which can lead to chronic disease which is difficult to treat.

I had to get extremely well educated about it, since I could not find a doc who knew how to effectively treat it, which is why I stayed sick for over 2 years, unable to work. Between the Lyme and Bartonella, I've worked less than a year since 2004, and had probably over $60k worth of lost wages and medical bills. It's nothing to screw around with, and it's darn near criminal how useless the typical doc is in diagnosing or treating it.

If you wish, I can let you know where to track down a Lyme doc, or at least get better educated.:smile:

There is a good spray that you can use on your clothes if you are going to be outdoors in a high risk area. It's pyrethrin-based, and is only for spraying on the clothes. You spray the clothes til they are good and wet, and let them dry. You MUST NOT use it on bare skin. But it's great, because if a tick simply touches your treated clothes, it simply dies quickly. The protection lasts about 2 weeks or so...you can get it here: http://www.drugstore.com/qxp153116_333181_sespider_1_1/repel/permanone_insect_repellent_clothing_and_gear_spray .htm

Hockeyfan
05-06-2010, 08:22 PM
4) Call an exterminator to treat your yard

This may be overkill. Every yard in my neighbourhood, without a doubt has a tick or twenty, hell probably a hundred, or more in them. Do kids still go out and play? Yes. Have they had ticks on them? Yes. It's just a tick.

Just check your kids after playing outside. You usually do this anyways. Same as yourself. Hell I've had one lodged on my pecker while at Myrtle Beach. Don't be afraid of everything out there. Mosquitos can carry disease. Do you go overboard killing them too? Ever hunt fox in your back yard for the chance they have rabies? Take a breath folks. It sucks if your the unlucky sap who gets bit by one carrying a disease and it has the chance to get in your system, but these don't happen often.

http://cipm.ncsu.edu/ent/southern_region/ripm/chap8/ticks/tickmain.htm
"It should be noted that ticks capable of transmitting Lyme disease must be attached for at least 24 hours for infection to occur. A person cannot become infected simply by having a tick crawl over their skin or clothing."

Bill S
05-06-2010, 08:42 PM
"It should be noted that ticks capable of transmitting Lyme disease must be attached for at least 24 hours for infection to occur. A person cannot become infected simply by having a tick crawl over their skin or clothing."

To be accurate, there is much debate among doctors about how long the tick needs to be attached. Some say 24 hours, some say less. My doc thought an attachment of a mere 2 hours warranted treatment for my wife when she was bitten, and later testing showed a borderline positive test result. So she either got the Lyme exposure from me via body fluids (also a subject of considerable debate amongst docs, though Lyme HAS been shown to be present in various body fluids, including saliva and semen) or she got it from that short exposure. To the best of her knowledge she had not been previously bitten. No one really can say scientifically for sure what that critical time is, and so I think it's best to be really conservative on that.

Just as no one can say conclusively whether it's transmissible via body fluid transfer. Conducting a study about that would be seriously unethical and probably illegal as hell to boot.

Hockeyfan
05-06-2010, 11:31 PM
I've been bitten numerous times by ticks and my kids have been bitten a few times each. Never once did I even think of going to the doctors to be tested. Granted I always watch the bite site for the "halo", but thankfully, knock on wood, we haven't had any issues.

Bill S
05-07-2010, 12:07 AM
I've been bitten numerous times by ticks and my kids have been bitten a few times each. Never once did I even think of going to the doctors to be tested. Granted I always watch the bite site for the "halo", but thankfully, knock on wood, we haven't had any issues.

Actually paradoxically the presence of a "bullseye" is considered strong evidence of Lyme's, and unfortunately as many as 30-50% of Lyme patients never get it.

I got a red area that was diagnosed as a spider bite. It went away after a short course of some antibiotic, then came back later and grew to cover my entire back. Only then did it raise eyebrows and I actually had a Lyme test, which came back strongly positive (which isn't common).

It's a funky disease; some folk like myself have an rapid response, get very sick, etc. Some people, their immune system suppresses it, it goes into hiding (it burrows into your tissues, creates a cyst and hides til conditions are ripe) and comes out years later. Usually when the immune system is weak due to stress, another illness, or taking steroids (which suppress the immune system).

It's ability to go into hiding is what makes it so hard to treat as well - you have to take 2 antibiotics at the same time to kill it in the bloodstream as well as the cyst form. If you take only one, it hides and comes back out later on. Bleh.

Hockeyfan
05-07-2010, 12:18 AM
Sure hope none of us every get infected with it. Fleas have even worse things in them pet owners. You get them from secondary infection, like itching a bite site. Even some grubs you kill in your garden house some nasty things.

Kwak
05-07-2010, 12:25 AM
My Mum says:

1) The trousers would need to be tucked into socks and then into boots

2) The ticks will get under the clothes--espec. elastic bands and such--anyway

3) Keep them outta the yard [until #4 is accomplished]

4) Call an exterminator to treat your yard

Your mum is smarter than my mutter. I talked to her today and she said "but I thought ticks only bit dogs?" - and she's not even close to being senile.

1) I know. I was raised in a heavily wooded and extremely rural area. Problem is that I have one child who kicks off his shoes and socks just because he thinks it's funny to be scolded for it. Luckily my younger one is very fair-haired or I'd have missed it. My older boy has thick, dark brown hair and hates having his hair messed with so he always puts up a big fight. He bites when he gets pissed off so I need to get my tetanus shot updated.

2) Yes, I was aware of that. They like the coziness I suppose.

3) Oddly each incident did not happen in the grass. The first tick was found inside the house first thing in the morning before my older son had even gone outside. The second was in the driveway underneath a tree that needs pruning but has since been sprayed twice. The third wasn't even on our property; we were actually far from home and I noticed it when I was strapping my 3yo into his car seat. I vacuumed the car out today and even checked out the underside of the car seat for any other ticks.

4) I've already advised with my exterminator. They only do around the perimeter of the house, not trees and shrubs, but his next visit is soon so I'm gonna tell him to bring the big guns when he calls to schedule. Beside spraying a liquid bug killer in the high traffic areas I also bought some granules for Scotts fertilizer dropper that is intended to kill grubs but also claims to kill ants and ticks as well. Might as well take care of all the critters. I need to rake out the stale mulch out of all the beds and call a tree service to have several trees trimmed/removed anyway.

Hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to drop the granules and feed the grass then rake out the mulch beds. Since I can't keep my kids out of the mulch beds I'm thinking of going with cedar chips this year instead. It's just a thought.

Kwak
05-07-2010, 12:28 AM
This may be overkill. Every yard in my neighbourhood, without a doubt has a tick or twenty, hell probably a hundred, or more in them. Do kids still go out and play? Yes. Have they had ticks on them? Yes. It's just a tick.

Just check your kids after playing outside. You usually do this anyways. Same as yourself. Hell I've had one lodged on my pecker while at Myrtle Beach. Don't be afraid of everything out there. Mosquitos can carry disease. Do you go overboard killing them too? Ever hunt fox in your back yard for the chance they have rabies? Take a breath folks. It sucks if your the unlucky sap who gets bit by one carrying a disease and it has the chance to get in your system, but these don't happen often.

http://cipm.ncsu.edu/ent/southern_region/ripm/chap8/ticks/tickmain.htm
"It should be noted that ticks capable of transmitting Lyme disease must be attached for at least 24 hours for infection to occur. A person cannot become infected simply by having a tick crawl over their skin or clothing."

Damn, HF. I'm already loathing the trip to Myrtle. Now you go and tell me this?!? What's next? Will I catch crabs in the hotel swimming pool or lazy river? :icon_wink:

Hockeyfan
05-07-2010, 01:55 AM
Damn, HF. I'm already loathing the trip to Myrtle. Now you go and tell me this?!? What's next? Will I catch crabs in the hotel swimming pool or lazy river? :icon_wink:

It is likely. Lol

Kwak
05-07-2010, 02:00 AM
It is likely. Lol

*packs extra fine comb*

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 02:40 AM
.

(despite the CDC saying to not use their epidemiological standards to diagnose the disease)...

...[I]t's darn near criminal how useless the typical doc is in diagnosing or treating it.

The head of the Mayo Clinic has stated that physicians--as a general/nation-wide group--are "wrong" 50 percent of the time.

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 02:47 AM
This may be overkill.

Just reporting what my Mum--Dr. Mom*--had to say...

*: Guess it's about to be "Dr. Grand-Ma"...

Don't be afraid of everything out there. Mosquitos can carry disease. Do you go overboard killing them too?

Not what I or Mum are saying--she's advocating driving them from the premises. Not "genocide" as such.

As regards the rest of what you were saying:

"Life is hard. After all, it kills you."
--Katharine Hepburn

(As much as I hate to say it--the quote means I'm "agreeing" with HF. God, I need some tequila)

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 02:51 AM
So she either got the Lyme exposure from me via body fluids (also a subject of considerable debate amongst docs, though Lyme HAS been shown to be present in various body fluids, including saliva and semen)

No Way!... Dude!?!

(seriously)

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 02:53 AM
So she either got the Lyme exposure from me via body fluids (also a subject of considerable debate amongst docs

Mein Leibchen just said she's "heard that too", transmission via intimate contact,--but was never clear as to it validity.

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 02:58 AM
Sure hope none of us every get infected with it. Fleas have even worse things in them pet owners. You get them from secondary infection, like itching a bite site. Even some grubs you kill in your garden house some nasty things.

The Cats We Serve are strictly indoor cats.

But, someone could bring them in--right now we're in an apartment building with dogs that get walked--and Mein Leibchen's oldest has a dog....

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 03:11 AM
Your mum is smarter than my mutter. I talked to her today and she said "but I thought ticks only bit dogs?" - and she's not even close to being senile.

My Mum is kinda an "old country gal"--mason jars, natural remedies, spent a lot of time pre-ME in the south during the '60s, three guns around the house in Atlanta when I was "little"*. In fact, I was in my 20s or 30s before "No Ma, the dogs and I didn't like fishing--we just liked being in the sun with you..."

*: There were three (3) places in the house i was NOT ALLOWED to approach or touch (all several feet above my height anyway)--and didn't understand "why" 'til decades later.

4) I've already advised with my exterminator. They only do around the perimeter of the house, not trees and shrubs, but his next visit

Ah ha. We have a guy the family has used as long as I can remember--and only him. He knows what he's doing and executes Mum's instructions without "question"--he might advise and double-check, know what I mean Vern?

D.C. Hughes
05-07-2010, 03:13 AM
Damn, HF. I'm already loathing the trip to Myrtle. Now you go and tell me this?!? What's next? Will I catch crabs in the hotel swimming pool or lazy river? :icon_wink:

Well, that could be "fun" either way--the eatin' kind or the RID kind {smirk}

Bill S
05-07-2010, 11:01 AM
No Way!... Dude!?!

(seriously)

Yep. They really don't know if humans can transmit it via body fluids, though mice have been tested and can do so. It's possible with HIV, though as I recall, HIV needs to be transmitted by blood or semen - saliva exposes a person to it, but not in sufficient quantity to cause actual disease.

It's going to be near-impossible to prove for sure though. About the only way I can think of would be to take couples, one person Lyme positive, the second tested and has no antibodies. Put them up in a hotel for 3 months, have one group only kiss, no sex, the other group unprotected sex (but using the PILL), no kissing, and a control group (neither kissing or sex). See who's uninfected partner shows antibodies after 3 months...

I can't see many folk volunteering to see if it works. And it would be highly unethical and probably illegal to run such a study. I can see it now, yeah, sign me up for a study where I might give my lady a disease they don't know how to cure. Uh huh. Or even worse the doc spews his poorly educated crap and says sure, a 3 week course of Doxycycline will fix you right up if you do get infected.

The typical doc is useless because it's not an easy disease to diagnose or treat, and it requires too much knowledge and effort. It is a relative of syphilis and can infect any organ system in the body, and can exhibit a wide range of weird symptoms. Throw in really poor testing commonly available, and it's no wonder most docs don't know how to handle it. You won't handle it with a quick course of Doxycycline and a 10 minute office visit, with a quick followup as most docs are wont to do.

Kwak
05-26-2010, 02:24 PM
We're still getting them. I pulled one out of my hair the other night and found one latched under Justin's armpit during last night's batch. I'm watching all of us very closely and think I need to do the following:

- spray a LOT of pet/kid safe pest killer and deer repellant
- dress up in coveralls and a hat and clean up all the debris
- hire somebody to chop down and trim the 20+ trees in my 4000 sq' yard. A few are encroaching upon the house and the kids/deer like to congregate around some as well.

All this has to happen before this weekend. That's when I'm getting more mulch delivered.

BTW, I've read that ticks hate strong smells like citronella and garlic. I wonder if that goes for cedar too? In any event I need some supplies so I'm off to Home Depot.