spanking?

[sao95]

someone mentioned super nanny in a post, and I hate super nanny, her advice is way to "socially acceptable" for me. She never says, for instance, "spank your brats a$$". I will spank my daughter if I have to, so far I haven't had to, but I have told her she will get a spanking if she continued behaving badly (don't remember what it was now) so was curious what everyone else's stance is on the spanking issue? I was spanked, all my neighbors were spanked, back then we got spanked by our neighbors if we were outta line, not something you would see now-a-days, and I don't think any of us came out scarred.
sao

[Indy]

In my opinion, it's just another tool in the parenting tool box. I just have problems with parents who use it as their only tool. We've "bumped Rachel's butt" a couple of times, but its only when she's doing something that's outright dangerous, like trying to run into the street. It's worked well and we've seen no aggressive behaviour from her.

The dog and I were both beaten regularly when I was growing up and we turned out OK. J/K, they never laid a hand on the dog. :wink:

[Sonnie Bee]

please, those Nanny-show nannies could use a good spanking! :twisted:

there are different levels of corporal discipline which can be used in the proverbial parenting tool box. a tap on the bum is certainly an effective device in containing a child's potentially rampant behavior.

but a spanking is more realistically a sign that the parent has lost the ability to reason and maintain control... aka a tantrum.

what would a child have to do to actually deserve a hard, repeated whomping on the backside? talk back? not listen? act their age??

perhaps, like what indy said, if a child does something "bad," like intentionally hurting another child, intentionally destroying something, or running away from the parent in a potentially dangerous situation.

but if that's the case, there may be other things to look at.

and in those instances, maybe a true spanking could be effective, but only if delivered in a calm, calculated manner with the intent to teach the child, "what you just did was SO bad, this is what will happen if you ever do it again." the experience will surely stick with the child.

but there are just so many other options to choose, like removing toys, no tv, no friends over, no computer, no parks, no popsicles, early bedtime, etc.

[Presdad]

We were just talking about this at dinner tonight. In my family we only got spanked if we either did something really stupid-dangerous or were really out of control. It made quite an impression so I think that's what we will do when the time comes. I imagine it's got to be tough to decide where to draw the line when you're the parent out there on the front line so to speak. My hat is off to you guys.

My wife said her dad spanked her once then felt so bad about it he never did it again. She thinks it's because he was beaten mercifully for little or no reason when he was a kid. I'm glad he chose not to repeat history.

Tim

[sao95]

interesting post sonnie bee, but I think your defining spanking abit differently than I'm thinking of it. A spanking to me is a slap on the butt, you said a "hard, repeated whomping on the backside".

[Weston]

Spankings/beatings were much more of a threat for us... and that was enough to leave an emotional mark.

[dad305]

I've watched those shows and I truly believe that the behavior of some of the kids shown would worsen if spanked.

If I was spanked when I was a kid, I can't remember it. My brother was a loud mouth so he would get it now and then. I have spanked my kids when they get out of hand just to set the booundaries. Nothing that would bruise them for more than a couple of minues.

I think moost of us know how to make a distinction between spanking and hitting.

[tt3]

We were spanked as kids too. When we got older it was with the wooden spoon. (Spanking defined as one or two swift swats.) Damn that spoon smarted. If we started acting up to bad mom would call "TONY GET OUT THE SPOON"
Forget 1-2-3 that was the cue to straighten up and fly true, no kidding, or it'd be on. We probably were only spanked a handful of times, and I could probably tell you each one. Never throw a stone at a passing motorcycle. Especially when the rider gets off and tells your mom about it. Oof... I think I was 5 or 6.
Thing with me is the setting I think, or the circumstances. When the violation would cause more pain or trouble than the spanking, go for it. I.E. running away in a parking lot, throwing a stone at a motorcycle...
But I don't think it should be used to punish violence as it sends a wrong message. "You hit your sister? I'll spank you!" Nah, shouldn't be like that.

I'm pretty sure I was grounded for a while after that stone incident too...
My disjointed $0.02

[Jackson's Dad]

Feh... spanking is just the parent throwing a tantrum.

Can it be an effective tool, threat, etc for a parent? Sure. But that's just a path I don't want to go down. I know that I can let my anger get the best of me at times, so there's no way I am going to allow myself to use physical punishment.

[Indy]

Feh... spanking is just the parent throwing a tantrum.

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. I have never spanked because I'm "throwing a tantrum". I can understand your position that spanking isn't a tool you wish to use--different strokes for different folks. However, it's not fair to stereotype every parent who uses spanking as a parenting tool as somebody who is out of control, or worse, a child abuser. Having been on the receiving end of more than a few spankings, I can say that I feel I was never abused.

Not offended, just had to offer my viewpoint. I understand that parenting methods can sometimes be a touchy subject.

[Jackson's Dad]

Didn't mean to offend, or imply that people who spank are abusing in some way. Not at all! By saying its a tantrum, I just meant that I feel it's a loss of composure, dealing with something through an emotional response. The few times it was used on me as a kid, it didn't discipline me at all, but made me feel angry at my parents and tougher... I can clearly remember feeling "you think you're tough? bring it on!".

If anyone feels its a good tool, and can use it effectively, well that's fine. Just not for me.

[sao95]

I guess I interpreted that wrong, I googled "feh" and it's a yiddish term meaning "Indicates disapproval or displeasure", so I thought you disapproved of that statement, guess I read too much into that one :roll:

alot of interesting replys though, some food for thought definately. I wouldn't ever want to lose control of myself, but I don't think that's much of an issue as I've always been pretty level headed. A few people have mentioned they thought it was an emotional response, and I hadn't really thought of it as being that, guess it really depends on how it plays out. If you jump outta your armchair screaming, pick the kid up and smack em then I'd say emotional, but if you tell them they are going to get a spankin, and why, then go through with it very methodically, I think it's not emotional, and probably worse. I know when we would get in trouble my grandma would make us stand in line (she has alot of grandkids) and would spank us with a yardstick, and being last in line sucked. So her reaction wasn't emotional but more disciplinary, and we did deserve it everytime, so can't fault her there. My mother on the other hand would chase us down the hall (because we would run away) wildly swinging a belt, and you had to cover your head as you ran cause you weren't sure where the buckle was gonna land. (I actually find that rather amusing now). My father on the other hand (who didn't live with us) only spanked us once, for something pretty bad, and he told us to go to our rooms and we would get a spanking, again methodical, and again way worse because you knew it was coming. Definately gives me something to think about, that being if I ever feel I need to spank my daughter, how should I go about it, that ultimately seems to me to be what is most important.

as for taking things away, I'm not sure on that one. It strikes me as wrong because it seems like you are bartering with the child "do this or I'll do this", or "oh ya, well I'll take your x-box away so there". Just doesn't really seem right to me. But you have to remember my daughter is only 2 1/2, so I haven't had to deal with too much yet where she has needed disciplined with more than a tone of voice, So I'm saying this with an eye on the future and not much behind me for experience.

[SideShowCecil]

My brother and I got the occasional blistered arse, usually for lying. That was the line you didn’t cross with our parents. They didn’t resort to corporal punishment unless our infraction involved a serious safety issue or we tried to lie our way out. We got our share of corporal punishment in the catholic elementary school system as well. That was almost always the wooden ruler across the palms. Now that hurt like hell.

I’m not sure where I stand, haven’t really given the subject much thought yet.

[mrandjr]

Spanking could be good tool if used appropriately.

My brothers and I got the belt, wooden paddle, hand accross the face, fist to the stomach, back, pretty much everywhere, and well just use your imagination. Lets just say When the old man walked out when I was 15 it was the last time we spoke.

LOL I remember once my papaw (my grandfather and I were very very close) swatted me on the rear once for really messing up at his place I balled for an hour. Not because it hurt but because I had dissapointed him. My old man could beat me purple and I wouldn't give a tear.

Obviously from my past I am not a big supporter of spanking but different things work for different kids. I don't plan to spank but won't rule it out. There is a big differenc ebetween a swat on the butt and a beating not everyone realizes that.

[Indy]

My dad introduced the belt after I loaded up my back pocket with change and he wound up with a blood blister in the shape of a quarter. It was one of those million dollar shots that got him in the right spot and broke some capillaries. That was the one time I was truly sure that it hurt him more than it hurt me. :lol:

Unfortunately, I was a child of the 70's and my father had a good supply of belts that were wide enough that they could double as a razor strap. All he had to do was double it up and make a snapping sound with it and my brother and I would stop any and all BS.

My parents tried all sorts of punishments, but I only responded to spankings. I guess I have a tendency to be a bit stubborn. I was grounded for almost my entire high school career and that didn't bother me. That meant no hanging out with friends, no car, and at one point nothing in my room but my clothes and furniture. I was never much into material things, so even that didn't bother me.

[sao95]

Unfortunately, I was a child of the 70's and my father had a good supply of belts that were wide enough that they could double as a razor strap. All he had to do was double it up and make a snapping sound with it and my brother and I would stop any and all BS.


:lol: reminded me of something, when my dad split he left alot of those belts, and my mom always threatened/used them. Those 1 inch leather ones hurt like hell too. So my brother and me would dig through her closet when she was at work and any belts we found we would bury outside or cut up in little pieces and throw them away. Then my mom started hiding them so we couldn't cut them up, so we'd look harder, by the I was 10 I don't think she had any belts, mens leather, or the womans plastic type (which had a hell of a sting too), The funniest thing is I was talking to a kid who grew up in our neighborhood, we were having a few beers, and he said "you know, I never even saw "the belt" but I was scared to death of it, just from your mom threatening you". :lol:

[7by12]

This is an old thread, I know, but I've been thinking about this tonight after my Granny-in-law with Alzheimer's hit my 21 month old on the back of her hand just because she accidentally startled her...

Have you ever seen red?

I had a sociology textbook that said working class families tend to use corporal punishment and middle and upper class families tend to use emotional distance and withholding to discipline. I've always thought that was too general a statement to do anyone any good... painting with a broom.

When Noel is defiant... and she can be at 21 months, though you probably have to see it to believe it... or putting herself in danger, or doing something she has already demonstrated she knows we don't want her doing, the routine has been "Noel, Stop. Now. Noel... 5 4 3 2 1 0" followed by (if she doesn't obey) walking over to her, picking her up, two or three swats (not hard) on the bottom, then, "Look at me. I love you too much to let you disobey me..." or more explanation why she got a spanking. I hug, and she usually offers a kiss. If she responds before we get there, it's "Good job, Noel. Thank you for (insert what's appropriate) and explanation of why we asked that of her.

What has disturbed me is sometimes, when she stops what she is doing before 0 is reached, she hits herself on the chest. Not hard, but it's clear that's what she is doing.

If I'm angry, I don't ever spank her. I would die if I ever hit her in anger.

...

I feel pretty vulnerable sharing all this... I was spanked when I was a child and I remember my mother spanking us "in anger" once very vividly.

Now, watching someone who had no business striking my child do so... I'm re-evaluating. Do time-outs work with defiant 21 month olds? Let her scream from her crib for 5 minutes when she is defiant? She can scream for more than an hour (in anger, not pain); I've tested this.

Anyway, I come from a home where love was very emotionally and physically demonstrated. My wife comes from a home where her father was emotionally distant and abusive. I wouldn't trade places with her, unless it was to spare her the emotional pain.

I don't know what to do. I guess there is never a way to raise a child without wounding them in some way (with my parents it was my potential). I guess I'm just rambling about something I'm of two minds about.

[jeffus]

Feel free to spout - that's what we're about!

[Bollux]

ooh good lord, he is speaking in rhymes.

[SGTDad]

The only time my Mom spanked me that I can remember today is when she did it in anger. It was around the time of, or shortly after, my parent's divorce.

That said, I think spanking is a tool that should be used unemotionally and sparingly. It also depends on the child and what they respond to. There were times when I was young that I preferred a spanking over something more like term like grounding. I knew it would be painful but over quickly.

So far, I've seen no reason to spank my oldest, and my youngest is too young. This discussion reminds me of a quote that I can't quite remember, but it goes something like: "Spanking a child does not make them learn - spanking a child gets their attention so the learning can begin."

[woodchuck]

one swat is on the end of the 12 item menu for what works with my kids. That diaper really doesn't let much through, I feel it's a matter of reaction time that has the most impact, like puppies it needs to happen within a few seconds to have the most impact, regardless of the method. My daughter has responded to looks and verbal pretty well, my son is very strong willed and short memoried sometimes, so a couple issues require a swat to get him with the program, his sister will even grab an object from his hand if he's about to throw something other than a ball. The whole 'youngest gets away with more' ain't happening here, equality in loving lavishly, discipline quick. So far most every day is trouble free, discipline methods will change as they do, I find routine to be the best for them so far, it's security for them, and will prepare them for sitting still in school, and the routine of school will not be a big adjustment so hopefully they'll be able to put more into learning and focusing on the teacher.

The one school we're thinking about requires 30 hours per semester out of the parent's during the school day if possible, lunchroom monitor, playground stuff like that, nice way to keep an eye on your own kids and watch them grow, and see the fruits of your labor regarding behavior.

[Jackson's Dad]

My wife comes from a home where her father was emotionally distant and abusive. I wouldn't trade places with her, unless it was to spare her the emotional pain.

Yeah by I assume he wasn't emotionally distant as a disciplinary method - he just *was*.

Do time-outs work with defiant 21 month olds? Let her scream from her crib for 5 minutes when she is defiant? She can scream for more than an hour (in anger, not pain); I've tested this.

I'm sure. We have a 22 month old. We never spank, but handle misbehaving very carefully. If he wants something, and screams to get it, we look in his eye, use an calm firm tone and tell him to "use your words". We just repeat it, and eventually he'll say "please" or "TV" or point (good enough!). When we first started doing this, it rarely worked. But we never gave in. Even when we were able to give him the pretzel he wants, if he starts screaming because we are going too slow, we stop, and wait for him to ask. After a month or so, this began to work.

If he throws a tantrum, we ignore him. We watch him to make sure he doesn't hurt himself. We let him hold on to us too. But we don't talk to him or acknowledge that is is a form of communication. Eventually, the tantrum stops. Now it is pretty funny, because his "tantrums" are him half-heartedly sitting on the floor in a huff, realizing they aren't going to work.

[7by12]

Yeah by I assume he wasn't emotionally distant as a disciplinary method - he just *was*.


This is true, so it's not a direct parallel. I didn't mean to say non-corporal-punishment=emotional withdrawl, though I was exploring that. I don't believe that is true.

I'm going to print this thread for my wife and we are going to discuss if we want to change out discipline method. It really breaks my heart to watch her spank herself...

If we change our method, I don't mean to imply that those who use corporal punishment as more than a last resort are any worse than those who do, if at all. Every child, every parent is different, and I believe only the best kinds of dads are even drawn to this forum. I know that this can be a hot-button issue and I don't intend to start a flame war.

What do you do for really serious stuff... running into the street, running towards the lit burner, hitting, biting, etc.?

[woodchuck]

when they get in front of the stove to do more than see their reflection, a resounding HOT, since they were crawling, has worked well, my daughter sees a fire in a movie or book and points without touching and says HOT, the boy is learning slowly. When possible we try to use the back burners, and always turn the pot handles in, open oven they aren't allowed in the room, same with stove to sink with pot of pasta.

running towards anything unwanted gets the same command, their name firm, stern, and a little louder than usual, then, come here with a hand motion.

Men, kids and puppies are pretty much the same, kis, consistent.

Hitting- behavior - see what starts it and try to put the puzzle together.

Biting - behavior- new tooth.

[Indy]

Rachel's a pretty good kid, so spanking is pretty rare. Even then, it's more of what we call a "butt bop"--one light pop on the diaper more for the sound effect than the sensation. It's typically reserved for dangerous situations and times when the other parenting tools don't work. Usually all we have to do is ask her if she wants her butt bopped and she'll stop whatever she's doing. Sometimes she'll stop and bop her own butt.

[jeffus]

I think I'll take up random spankings for no reason. Just to keep her on her toes... :wink:

Did the butt-pop thingie too, wayback. Once. After the third consecutive mid-night tossing of the refrigerator. First night was cute, second night-annoying, third night - a pattern that had to be stopped! :axe:

She's too old now. Probably remember it in therapy and put my butt in jail. :D

Your kid - your call.

[7by12]

. Usually all we have to do is ask her if she wants her butt bopped and she'll stop whatever she's doing. Sometimes she'll stop and bop her own butt.

I'm strangly glad to hear this... Noel isn't the only one who acts out disciplining herself. I don't think a butt pop is wrong, but even if our discipline methods don't change, it's good for me to be deliberate about it. I have this annoing habit of periodically re-evaluating just about everything. Been too many times when I was convinced I knew what was what and was dead wrong.

[Jackson's Dad]

I've said this before, but we learned a lot about discipline by taking our dog to puppy training. Lots of parallels. (Except our kid doesn't do *anything* for a liver treat... strange.) One lesson they taught us was "start like you plan to continue". Meaning, whatever method you use, be sure you are ok with continuing to use it, and even with escalating it (if needed).

Of course because we are talking about this, last night Jack had a meltdown. He was playing outside all afternoon, and has a tooth coming in, so before dinner he just flipped out. It was the first bad one in a couple weeks, so it took us a few minutes to get out sea legs. But he surprised us. As he tantrumed, we periodically calmly ask tell him to "use your words... what do you want...". After he got some of it out, he came around and pointed to his cup and said "wawa". Surprised us, because he's never asked for water by name. But we gave it to him, and *bam* the tantrum stopped. Funny kid. I hope we can keep this up as he grows and changes!

[SGTDad]

Well, I popped my daughter on the bottom for the first time this weekend. We were camping for 5 days (just got back today) and Katie (my daughter), was grabbing stuff off the picnic table and putting it on the concrete pad. I told her to put it back, and she did. She grabbed something else, and dropped it to the ground - again, I asked her to put it back and told her to please don't take anything off the table.

Well, her little brother, who's just one, was standing near her using the table bench for support. After I asked her not to take anything off the table, she got in a huff and went over and pushed her little brother who fell down onto the concrete. I was SOOOO angry. She immediately got a little pop on the bottom followed by our standard lecture on not pushing/being nice to your little brother.

She has been getting meaner to him, especially since he aggressively wants to play with whatever she's playing with. Keeping him from going after the toys she's playing with is a full time job, but in this case, her push was completely unprovoked and it seemed pretty obvious she wanted to take her frustration out on poor Aiden.

[silviomossa]

so was curious what everyone else's stance is on the spanking issue

My stance is simple: I don't hit my kids.

[Patrickz]

Ive been addicted to "super nanny" and like the naughty spot idea. The problem I see as the norm to poorly behaved kids is parents not being consistant and doing what they say they will do. Empty promisis are bad all the way around as I see it. I personally don't like spanking but we will see how it goes :roll:

[Jackson's Dad]

She has been getting meaner to him, especially since he aggressively wants to play with whatever she's playing with. Keeping him from going after the toys she's playing with is a full time job, but in this case, her push was completely unprovoked and it seemed pretty obvious she wanted to take her frustration out on poor Aiden.

Similar thing happened with my niece and nephew. Don't worry, he'll get back at her... eventually. :wink:

[woodchuck]

SGTDad wrote:
She has been getting meaner to him, especially since he aggressively wants to play with whatever she's playing with. Keeping him from going after the toys she's playing with is a full time job, but in this case, her push was completely unprovoked and it seemed pretty obvious she wanted to take her frustration out on poor Aiden.

This has begun here, we emphasize(firmly sometimes) the whole sharing thing, daughter wants son's toy he cries we say share, lead her to him and repeat, then boy takes her toy she cries, starts all over, it has helped. Alex now takes a trade item with her, she takes his toy then he cries so she gives him trade item to shut him up and keep us off her back, all this reasoning out of 2+ year old, at this rate I will get walked over without knowing it when she hits the teen years.

[CmdrAwesome]

so was curious what everyone else's stance is on the spanking issue

My stance is simple: I don't hit my kids.

That's assuming that hitting and spanking are one in the same.

I don't personally spank my kids, but my good friend who is also a SAHD has used a single swat on only the butt with very good success.

One of the things that he does to make sure he's not teaching to lash out in anger, is that he takes his child to the child's bedroom, closes the door so as not to humiliate him in front of his sister, explains WHY he is about to get this spanking, turns him around, administers one spank then tells him he was sorry he had to do it, that he loves him and that he dosen't want this behaviour to continue.

This occured after exploring other methods of discipline. His son has an EXTREMELY strong will. He will be a great leader, and it's not his intention to "Beat" it out of him, it's his intention to give consequences that can be percieved as real to him. He responded poorly to timeouts, he had a resolve and a patience that was amazing for his age, he was strong enough to not care about toys and other child luxuries like snacks, and we all know that Yelling really dosen't do much more than bewilder them.

[Bollux]

we still give the little man a small whack when he bites or does something repeatedly wrong even after telling him no a few times.

[silviomossa]

My stance is simple: I don't hit my kids.

That's assuming that hitting and spanking are one in the same.

That is correct, I do see them as being one in the same. Providing what might be a sound rationale, as you do, doesn't change the action.

I could debate it more extensively, but that doesn't seem to be an accepted communication style on this forum. Which is fine. I was just answering the question at the beginning of the thread, adding another data point, as it were.

[Jackson's Dad]

I could debate it more extensively, but that doesn't seem to be an accepted communication style on this forum.

Hmm.. we seem to debate stuff all the time. Usually about beer, but still.

[tt3]

I could debate it more extensively, but that doesn't seem to be an accepted communication style on this forum.

Hmm.. we seem to debate stuff all the time. Usually about beer, but still.

Its when it descends into personal attacks or slurringly offensive generalities that we don't like. Keep it clean and there's no problems. Heck I was a debate team timekeeper in junior high. I'll hold up the time cards!

[UK Basketball Fan]

We haven't decided for sure if we are going to use spanking or not. My wife and I were both spanked (only a few times) growing up.

One odd thing I still don't understand: My father would spank me ( again, he only did this a few times and it was probably for a good reason) and then tell me to stop crying or he would spank me again. I always thought that if you didn't want me to cry then don't spank me! He died when I was a teenage so I never go a chance to ask him why he did this? Anybody got any ideas?

[silviomossa]

Its when it descends into personal attacks or slurringly offensive generalities that we don't like.

That makes sense. But while I can avoid attacking some random Parent X directly (and would never wish to do that anyway), explaining why I dislike (or "attacking", to some) Parenting Tactics A, B, and C that Parent X (and perhaps many others) use, then some random Parent X might take it as a personal attack.

My impression is that support, debate about beers and such (and other hobby-related threads), and parenting information were the main usages of this board, in that order. I used to debate on another board heavily (it made me flesh out my ideas and become a better parent, to be frank), and when I got to this one, I said something wrong and it was noted. Being newer here, that's why I held back. Maybe I'm wrong.

[jeffus]

Same advice for the kids goes for us as well - Play Nice! :D

And there's a difference between a discussion and a fight. Obvious, but I said it anyway. :wink:

[Indy]

I guess the only time I have a problem with the spanking debate is when somebody tells me I'm wrong to spank my child and doing so is a form of abuse. It makes it worse when the person condemning the action has never actually seen how it is implemented.

[tt3]

You may also note that I stay away from topics like that specifically for that reason. I came to this site looking to chat with folks in the same boat as me about anything and everything. I ask for advice once in a while and have come to respect a number of our members for the posts given. In a nutshell, though, serious topics that people have strong feelings about I avoid posting in because you will likely never change the other persons mind. Its fun to read different points of view, but I'll not get into it.
Now, if you want to come on by, grab a beer and sit out on the deck with a Cohiba discussing it, I'm cool with that, face to face. The anonimity of an online forum such as this one take away all the nonverbals that could indicate offense, you know? If I'm saying something and can see you're getting personally pissed about it, I'll retreat to another topic...
Lot of blow about not much.
Jeff had it right, play nice.

[jeffus]

In my humble opinion - a discussion would allow each other to elaborate their viewpoint whilst the opposing party respectfully, listens, interprets and expounds his/or her own idea and is treated with the same respect.

A fight is just the lowest de-evolution of concepts allowing one self to punch your neighbor in the nose to make you feel better.

Summarized, a discussion would respect another individual. A fight would ignore the other individual on so many levels. So, let's talk....

Play Nice! :D

[Don-Dad]

"Be Nice" "Suppose someone calls my momma a whore." "Is she?" Be Nice! (sorry lame Roadhouse quote)

I'm all up for good debates but many times they turn bad because people cannot control their emotions. We have had some good and bad ones here and besides one or 2 bad apples, we play nice.

You cannot compare this to other boards, apples to oranges I say. We share good advice and yes we talk about beer and boobs, we are men after all.

I do occassionaly spank, my mom used to spank us all the time so I am not a big supporter of it because most times I remember not taking it too seriously as I got older.

[SGTDad]

My 2 cents:

Debate about spanking is like a debate about abortion - in the end, no one's mind gets changed and the only thing that gets accomplished is negative opinions and hurt feelings all around. This is one debate I will stay away from.

[silviomossa]

You cannot compare this to other boards, apples to oranges I say. We share good advice and yes we talk about beer and boobs, we are men after all.

Sure you can compare. Different boards have different guidelines, expectations, and policies. Comparing them and noting the differences isn't making a qualitative judgement, mind you.

As for the last sentence, I'm not sure. Saying "we are men" and having it mean something, across the board, isn't as easy as it was 50 years ago, I suspect.

[silviomossa]

I guess the only time I have a problem with the spanking debate is when somebody tells me I'm wrong to spank my child and doing so is a form of abuse. It makes it worse when the person condemning the action has never actually seen how it is implemented.

That criteria pretty much keeps a person like me from saying anything about it, which is why I held back.

Which is *fine*, mind all, if that's how it is.

[Remington]

I think not spanking a child is abusive...

Spanking is something we all need to do more of!!! :wink:

[Don-Dad]

My 2 cents:

Debate about spanking is like a debate about abortion - in the end, no one's mind gets changed and the only thing that gets accomplished is negative opinions and hurt feelings all around. This is one debate I will stay away from.

I agree.

[Jackson's Dad]

I ran an interfaith discussion group in college. We had a firm rule: no one is purely right, no one is purely wrong, and absolutely no attempts at conversion. We had a pretty diverse group (including a southern Baptist, a Catholic from Ireland, a couple non-denominational folks, a Wiccan, and a even guy who gets "inspired" by LSD.) and had some great conversations. The best was when the Baptist and the Wiccan kept finding themselves agreeing on a lot of topics!

Might be good for us here too. E.g. spanking isn't "right" or "wrong" -- its just a method you may or may not use. Likewise breastfeeding, or sleeping methods, etc. So if someone says "i would never spank my child", that's fine. But saying "i would never spank my child because it's wrong" kinda puts a damper on the conversation. Just stuff to thing of.

Dan

[SGTDad]

My 2 cents:

Debate about spanking is like a debate about abortion - in the end, no one's mind gets changed and the only thing that gets accomplished is negative opinions and hurt feelings all around. This is one debate I will stay away from.

I agree.

Actually, I would like to amend my comment to only apply to spanking children. I'm completely open to talking about all adult spanking :twisted:

[silviomossa]

[quote="So if someone says "i would never spank my child", that's fine. But saying "i would never spank my child because it's wrong" kinda puts a damper on the conversation.[/quote]

What if someone responds to the first comment by asking what your reasons are? That might lead to the second quoted comment, or something like it.

[Jackson's Dad]

What if someone responds to the first comment by asking what your reasons are? That might lead to the second quoted comment, or something like it.

They should try to explain their reasons, not just use a blanket "it's wrong". Harder to do, but might turn into some interesting conversations.

Or if someone doesn't know (or more likely, doesn't have time to explain) then there's good ways and bad ways to say it: "I think it'd not the right thing to do" -- wouldn't be bad, but "It's evil and will turn your kids into monsters" would not be very conducive to conversation!

Dan

[SGTDad]

It's kind of funny, you guys are have a debate about how to debate spanking!

[tt3]

It's kind of funny, you guys are have a debate about how to debate spanking!

I was thinking the same thing. It'll turn into a ground rules debate before debating! :lol:

[SGTDad]

It's kind of funny, you guys are have a debate about how to debate spanking!

I was thinking the same thing. It'll turn into a ground rules debate before debating! :lol:

Before we do that, we need to have a debate about how to debate the ground rules. Only then can we have a good debate about whatever topic we're debating....wait, what were we debating again?

[Indy]

....wait, what were we debating again?

chugchug: & bounce:

[silviomossa]

It's kind of funny, you guys are have a debate about how to debate spanking!

Whether or not to debate this (and other "sensitive" topics), I think. But while I agree with Jackson for the most part, many others have spoken otherwise.

[sao95]

I had thought that we have had a few worthwhile debates on here. I guess the question is what are you "holding back"? Are you holding back in saying "I disagree and this is why......", or are you holding back in saying "your a freaking idiot, did your mother have any children that lived"? To be honest the tone of what you've written in past discussions has seemed to hold the latter. Your reply to this thread alone "I don't hit my kids". You didn't expand on it, you took spanking, equated it to hitting, (hitting has more of a negative connotation in our society I think) and in that one declaritive sentence you seemingly said much more that just a few words, you spoke volumes, but offending people who do spank isn't really gonna open the floor for debate.

But on with the debate, I don't think spanking is barbaric, a few I have used spanking, or butt-bop as a parenting tool. Butt-bop is probably more accurate, and I have done it. But parenting being a job where one is constantly learning I learned that time-outs worked much better back when this thread was started, now we are to the taking things away and timeouts don't work as well as they once did. I haven't taken spanking/butt bops outta the parenting tool box, and I'm sure I'll use it again at some time. Speaking of butt bops though, my brother in law gave my niece a bop on the butt the other night and I was sitting there thinking, geesh, kinda harsh for what she was doing in my opinion, but then again it's not my kid, I'm not there all day, maybe it was the last straw in an ongoing battle for a specific behavior, I don't know, but I know him and give him the benefit of the doubt..... Of course on an internet forum noone really knows one another, but from the things I've read by the members who come here regularly, the tone of their posts considered, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt as well... Maybe that's something you need to try?

[silviomossa]

WARNING: OPINIONS ON A POTENTIALLY SENSITIVE SUBJECT MAY BE EXPRESSED BELOW. IF NEED BE, READ NO FURTHER.

Myself, and probably everyone on this forum (and earth, for that matter), has certain things that they've considered in depth and hold strong and informed opinions. In such cases, "benefit of the doubt" isn't in play, and certainly not (for me) with an issue that is so widely practiced such that considering any potential exceptions is peanuts when considering the big picture.

Regarding the rest of your message:
-- If "hit" has a negative connotation, then so be it. If my child contacted another child with the same motion and force that people spank their kids, then I would certainly call it a hit. The context doesn't change anything to me. To others, it does.

-- On your statement, "offending people who do spank isn't really gonna open the floor for debate".... Others have expressed that it's an issue in which it's probably impossible to avoid offense. I agree and respect that. (Though personally, I doesn't bother me because it's about the issue, not the person.)

-- On your statement that my tone is akin to..."your a freaking idiot, did your mother have any children that lived" is flatly ridiculous. Except for that Token guy, I have never stated anything directly negative about another person on this board. And after that last post, I'm not sure that you can say the same.

[sao95]

my niece, of which I have spoken before (2 1/2 years old) is very enthusiastic and physical. Two traits that my daughter doesn't possess. As I mentioned in the bar they have quickly become great friends. The other day while playing in the yard, (they had been playing for quite some time) my niece runs full tilt and tackles my daughter, it was a rough drop, to the point that I was a little worried, then I saw them both laughing and chuckling. I have also witnessed her smack my daughter (it's not really a smack, but it resembles a smack, hard to describe) I have no idea what she is attempting to do, but I watch my daughter and she seems to think it's a part of whatever game they are playing, so I don't say anything. My point is intent, in my opinion of course, means alot. Not saying that a good intention can't go to far or be handled wrong. But I consider the intent and exactly what happened before I pass judgement. Your against spanking, I have no problem with that. But I have had issues with the tone of your posts. Can a post have a tone? I think they do. And it's not that you say anything directly negative about anyone, it's that you seem to imply it. If I'm wrong I apoligize, but that's how I have interpreted some of the things you've said in the past.

[sao95]

I have a bit more to say on this, so you'll have to deal with me. My other post, I didn't mean to say anything negative about you, but merely was hoping to point few things out. You said you had thought about about this in depth. I started this thread, obviously I was curious about other peoples take on spanking, and was also thinking about it's use by me. If I wasn't driven by my own thoughts I wouldn't have started the thread. Then your reply, I've already mentioned the wording, and then you gave us none of those in depth thoughts. Is your thought process so far above ours that we wouldn't be able to understand what you have to say? That's my immediate reaction, combine that with the wording and yes I'm gonna respond to your reply in somewhat of a negative way. But also when you do throw out those pieces of soul, the in depth thoughts that give away small bits of who you are and how you think, be prepared for someone to say "your wrong". You might be right for you, but that doesn't mean your right for everyone. If you want people to understand you then give them something to understand. I remember from a previous thread someone mentioned that spanking was an emotional act and any spanking shouldn't be done on an emotional level. Then everyone ran all over themselves making sure they inserted the disclaimer that "they weren't emotional". Personally I disagree, I think you should be emotional, of course the given is the "emotion" is anger, but hopefully we all have a bit more to give than just anger. I'm always emotional, 100% of everyday I'm feeling some emotion. It's kinda like "hitting", connotation is everything and emotion seems to have gotten the blackeye that day. I hope Louis won't mind if I quote his mom, from a link he gave and an interview she gave, it struck me when I first read it back then and has stuck with me "The other unique feature of the work is becoming intimate with each patient and discovering the rich emotional landscape of its personality and species". Doesn't seem to fit with this discussion, but doesn't the word "emotional" have such a nicer connotation than in some of the debates regarding spanking. But love or anger, it's all emotion, if you have one you have the other. What makes the difference, intent? I don't know, if I knew I wouldn't have started this thread........

[silviomossa]

But I have had issues with the tone of your posts. Can a post have a tone? I think they do. And it's not that you say anything directly negative about anyone, it's that you seem to imply it.

No, because I'm not interested in discussing people, but discussing issues. People are connected to issues, of course. There isn't any getting around that. But the focus is different.

But yes, all people probably have a "tone" that comes across in speaking/writing. I don't mind yours, but if you have a problem with mine, then so be it. I can't help that.

And regarding your second post, yes, it probably isn't good to go about it piecemeal. But you saw the parts of this thread where I brought up the idea of discussing the issue, and several had a problem with it. That's fine, and that's not why I went in depth (though I've done so elsewhere). And I'll refrain from tossing out any more thoughts about it on this forum in the future.