A workshop for the wife

[Weston]

After the second one comes in a few weeks my wife will be home for 6 weeks on maternity leave and I'm going to try to start building a workshop for her where she can do her scrapbooking, artwork, and craft projects with the kids.

Here's my plans-

16 by 20 feet. Climate controlled, insulated, sheetrocked... basically built just like a house would be.

I'm a bit stuck on the foundation though. At this point I think I'm going to just use cinder blocks as piers and put some tie down straps for the sill plate.

Got to look into the permit. I'll try to post pics if and when I start during the construction :)

[stretch]

Workshop, eh? Call it a "spousal containment facility" and you can probably claim some sort of tax credit... :wink:

[SGTDad]

Be very careful about what you're doing! As I former GC, I can say that your project will, in all likelihood, require a building permit. If you get caught building it without one, there can be hefty fines involved + the demolition of the structure. 16x20 is pretty big.

If you live in a northern climate with freeze-thaw cycles your foundation will be inadequate, especially for a building that size. Ground movement will cause your drywall to crack in a year or two and your windows and doors will likely get out of alignment as well. It might be adequate if you live in the south, but unless the ground underneath is properly prepared, you'll still have settling issues.

As for heating and cooling, I'm assuming you'll go electric so you won't have to plumb for gas. In many parts of the country, all electrical work must be done or at least checked by a licensed electrician. If this will be a detached structure, then you'll have to run a sub-panel in it with a feed from your main panel. There are a lot of very important safety issues when running detached sub-panels, so please get a professional if you don't know what you're doing.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I have a lot of experience and I come from a family of contractors (Dad is retired and brother took over the business).

[Weston]

Thanks SGT

In a former life I was an electrician and also have a bit of experience in other trades.

Heat and AC both electric... I live in the south but I still want to look into the foundation a bit more. Find out where the frost line is here at least.

Do you think concrete piers down to below frost line would be sufficient?

[SGTDad]

Thanks SGT

In a former life I was an electrician and also have a bit of experience in other trades.

Heat and AC both electric... I live in the south but I still want to look into the foundation a bit more. Find out where the frost line is here at least.

Do you think concrete piers down to below frost line would be sufficient?

Yeah, piers below the frostline would work. Just make sure you have them sized and spaced correctly. Obviously, the farther apart they are, the bigger they need to be and the beefier the framing between them needs to be.

If you're far enough south where hard-freezes aren't common, you might want to consider a slab-on-grade foundation. If you have any concrete experience, and could do it yourself (with a few friends), and you could save money over going with piers. Even if you hired someone you could come out ahead depending on lumber prices in your area. You'd also save a lot of time (Pour one day, frame walls a day or two later). Another plus is it will be more energy efficient than a raised floor, especially in the summer.

Good luck!

[Weston]

Cool, thanks.

I'm kinda itching to do a lot of framing so I'll probably go with the crawl space route.

I was planning on possibly using cinder blocks every five feet on the 20 foot sections and splitting it in thirds on the 16 foot section.

Will now plan on piers :) or paying someone to do footings and a brick foundation to match the house (depending on cost)

Do you have any experience with skirting around buildings built on piers? I want to keep critters out of the floor insulation. I was thinking of some kind of pressure treated plywood, but don't know how long that will last if it's in contact with the ground.

[SGTDad]

I know how you feel about framing :)

My house in Florida (which I'm currently selling) is 100 years old and built on brick piers. I used some plastic lattice-work in-between and it worked pretty well as long as you secure it on three sides. If I was staying there, I'd probably make a small trench between each pier around the foundation and pour a narrow concrete raised strip footing to keep animals (like my dog) from digging underneath the lattice. It looks a lot neater, and keeps mulch from migrating under the house.

If you want it totally enclosed, then the way to go is to brick it in, but that is pretty expensive. PT plywood is ok, but I don't think it will look good or last. In any event, I'd install a strip footing either around the foundation or between the piers to keep any skirting material at least 6" off the ground. You could either poor concrete or use concrete block set on a good bed of gravel. This not only provides longevity for your skirting material, but helps keep termites out and animals from digging underneath the skirting to get into the crawlspace.

One thing you could take a look at is exterior cement siding like this:

http://www.hardie.com/homeowner/prodhome/hardipanel.php

It's really designed to be house siding, but works well as skirting. It's not rated to be in contact with the ground, and it has to be painted, but it's impervious to termites, fire and moisture.

If you are planning on totally enclosing it, you'll either need to vent the space or seal it completely. Studies in the 90's show that a sealed and insulated crawlspace is better than venting in both energy efficiency and reduction of moisture related damage. Anyway, I'm getting in too deep here, but if you're interested in learning more, read this article (which, unfortunately, isn't free):

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/EN/Product/9908craw

Or you could just go with a slab foundation and get rid of your framing bug with the walls and roof :)

[jeffus]

For the skirting - you can use DuRock or Cement backer board. You could even give it a thin coat of topping mix to give it a cement texture. It should be fine for ground contact and moisture. Cheap, easy, and durable.

Saw that in a shed construction book. Which is on my list this season (shed).

[Weston]

Good ideas guys!

for rodent protection - I'm now thinking of lattice with some kind of metal mesh... also putting the mesh on the bottom of the floor joists (protect insulation)

Thanks for all the advice!

[SGTDad]

That's a good idea on the mesh/lattice combo. You can also extend the mesh a foot or so below grade to keep diggers out.

For your floor insulation, I'd stay away from fiberglass bats. It's too easily infested. Sprayed foam is ideal, but too costly. Rigid foam panels would work well and you could even put them in place before your subfloor if you wanted.

Sorry for all the advice, but I have the building itch and will have to scratch it vicariously through your exploits as I can't work on anything myself at the moment.

Please post progress reports once you get started!

[Weston]

Good advice on the insulation. Will do on the posts :) 8)

We are also planning on building a two story garage (getting a GC to do it) and am now looking into permit process for that.

[SGTDad]

I built a detached 2-story 2-car garage when I was in Florida. One thing I can say about garages is they can't be too big! :lol:

[Weston]

I built a detached 2-story 2-car garage when I was in Florida. One thing I can say about garages is they can't be too big! :lol:

Yes! we need a proper home for my motorcycle, lawn mower, tools.... :lol:

[woodchuck]

When we bought our place, the wife and I demolished an outbuilding during our fall vac. week, then I built a 2-story, 4-1/2 car garage. It took two month's of evenings and weekends working alone with 2ladders and hand tools. And it's still not big enough, but I did put in oversized doors, well worth the extra expense. 2-9x16 overheads and 36" steel entry doors.

To make things more comfortable: plastic barrier against moisture before you pour concrete for your floor. A floating wood floor on the slab, like Pergo, standing on concrete sucks, other useful items, anti-fatigue mats instead of the full floating floor is handy, but a pain to keep moving for cleaning, really good ones are a pleasure to stand on. Windows, never enough natural light, northern light is the most consistent, and she can make different window treatments too, her own showcase.

Look forward to following this project. Have fun

[Weston]

Submitted the plans and everything needed for the permit application to the County today.

Hopefully will start in a few weeks :)

[tt3]

All that and a Newborn?!? :shock:
:lol:

[Weston]

Yes!?!?! :shock:

:oops: :lol:

[SGTDad]

Submitted the plans and everything needed for the permit application to the County today.

Hopefully will start in a few weeks :)

Great! Hope you don't have a nit-picky county like I did.

[Weston]

Permit issued a few weeks ago, and my footing inspection passed last week with flying colors. 8)

Working on the piers right now and have the lumber ready for the floor system. Will post pics soon.

[jeffus]

Glad somebody's making progress on the construction front! :D

Cute avatar, BTW. :wink:

[Weston]

I hear you on the rain... have three piers left to build and my "holes" are full of water :evil:

[Weston]

Cute avatar, BTW. :wink:

Thanks! :)

[Don-Dad]

we need pictures of the work in progess :) I need motivation for my own projects :lol:

[Weston]

Some of the footing holes for the piers before I started building the piers-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_footingpiers004a.jpg

Where I'm at now (after 2 inches of rain)-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_footingpiers001a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_footingpiers005a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_footingpiers008a.jpg

[Don-Dad]

that last shot looks like a nice small pond for goldfish :P

[Jackson's Dad]

Wow, is the color of your solid that red? Pretty cool. All I got here is clay. No fun for digging. And when it rains, the water sort of floats along the top of the ground.

[SGTDad]

Nice pics! Where do you live? The red soil reminds me of parts of Colorado.

[Weston]

The soil is definitely a hard red clay!

Live in the NC Piedmont... tobacco road. In fact, the neighborhood we are in used to be a farm not long ago.

[Weston]

Looks like I'll be bailing water to be able to finish the last piers :???: Almost dried out and we got some big thunder-boomers last night.

[tt3]

You can pour concrete into water, can't you?

[Weston]

I'm not sure about that, but It's hard for me to stack the blocks underwater :wink:

I mean, the holes are now a foot and a half deep in water :shock:

[tt3]

I'm not sure about that, but It's hard for me to stack the blocks underwater :wink:

I mean, the holes are now a foot and a half deep in water :shock:

I've always been about as bright as a 5watt bulb.
Good luck!

[SGTDad]

Use your shop vac to pump out each hole? Or is the ground so saturated they'll just fill back up?

[Weston]

That's alright T :)

Sgtdad- Yeah, saturated :x

this weekend looks clear... probably start back then

[woodchuck]

pump it out , then pour in the powder, it'll set fine with the water seeping back in. A common practice for setting lots of fence posts quickly. Your application is similiar.

[Weston]

Ok, so the piers are done, and I just finished the floor framing and the floor framing inspection has passed :)

Here's some pics-



Me hard at work-


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_floorframing001a.jpg

My ugly mug again and still hard at work on the 2 by 12s-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_floorframing003a.jpg

Finishing up the blocking-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_floorframing007a.jpg

Floor framing done and now ready for the subfloor :) -

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_floorframing010a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_floorframing011a.jpg

Notice the smudge on the pics... gotta clean the lens

[seattle]

I agree nice work. Are you going to have running water? How are you going to run electricity to the building?

[Don-Dad]

Time to do some yard work :P

Floor looks nice, I envy your craftsmanship. I am handy but don't trust myself with projects such as yours.

[Weston]

Thanks guys... electric will come later with running the power from the house panel via underground to a subpanel on the workshop. No plumbing planned.

Don- Yard work?!? Me too busy! :wink:

[Weston]

More progress...


I secured some 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch mesh under the joists to help keep "critters" out-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_subfloor001a.jpg

Insulation next. R-30 is more than enough here-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_subfloor005a.jpg

Subfloor finished. Tongue and Groove and secured with liquid nail glue and 8 penny ring-shanked nails. Little guy has been busy, huh?

Also notice the professionals have started our garage-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_subfloor009a.jpg

I now have two walls up-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_subfloor010a.jpg

[woodchuck]

WOW, you mighty fast for 1-1/4 man show.

Looks great.

[SGTDad]

Very nice! I like the heavy mesh for crtter protection.

[Weston]

So far the hardest part working solo has been raising the walls and getting them braced. It's kind of a balancing act trying to make sure the walls get plumbed and then bracing them properly.

I envision the rafters being even harder working solo :???:

[SGTDad]

So far the hardest part working solo has been raising the walls and getting them braced. It's kind of a balancing act trying to make sure the walls get plumbed and then bracing them properly.

I envision the rafters being even harder working solo :???:

Last year I built a 600sq ft 1.5 story detached garage solo. The walls were definitely tough. Because of all the hurricane codes, they were 2x6 12" on center, so were very heavy. I had some friends help me lift the side walls, then I built the gable-end walls in place since they had to be balloon framed.

For speed and safety sake, I ended up hiring some semi-skilled labor from a temporary labor place at different points in the project. You might want to consider doing the same for the roof. You can usually get them for 1/2 day if that's all you need, and they come complete with insurance. Down in Florida, I paid $22 an hour for semi-skilled helpers and $16 for unskilled. It was well worth the money imo.

Are you doing rafters or trusses? I'd definitely get help with trusses - they are really unsafe to do solo, plus they're fragile.

I wasn't used to working solo on such a big project, so I bought this book, which was really helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561585459/

I still have my copy - let me know and I'd be happy to loan it to you.

[Don-Dad]

Probably in Westons neck of the woods, a trip to the closest decetn size city would provide lots of cheap labor. My bro use some "immigrants" to do his landscaping, paid them like $6.00 an hour, feed them lunch and gave them a case a beer for the road.

[woodchuck]

Rafters aren't that bad, just do your math and measure three times a good rafting square will have the tables on it. Put one up on each side so you don't get a bend in your ridge beam, I'd recommend a 2x for a ridge, it's stiffer. When we dropped the garage here I built a new one solo, 24x44 two story with open floor space on both floors no posts, rafters took a week after work and one weekend.

To make things easier up top I made a 4x8 table/scaffold that I could safely walk on and would support a step ladder for getting to the ridge from the inside. I ended up sheathing most of the roof from the inside also, slid the panels between the rafters, fit the H clips, nailed it.

Take your time and be safe.

[Weston]

Thanks SGT for the offer on the book :) We'll see how I do for now.

I planned on building rafters with the roof being a 6/12 pitch... should put the ridge board no higher than 5 feet, and I'm going to put plywood on top of my ceiling joists to work off of.

Probably try bracing the 2 by 8 ridge board somehow first with 2 by 4's then add the first rafters and adjust accordingly. I've got that blue speed square book that helps with all of the rafter cuts and am actually looking forward to that part of the job :)

2 by 6's on 12 inch center huh? Now THAT sounds like a job :shock:

[Weston]

Don-

Yeah, I think you're right about the cheap labor, though I would worry some about someone getting hurt and then suing me.

My dad has offered to help if things get sticky any time. He's no spring chicken, but in pretty good shape for his age... 4 hour drive away and gives grandma an excuse to see the grandkids.

We'll see... Kind of like the challenge of doing it solo

[Weston]

Take your time and be safe.

Good advice when working 10 feet off of the ground for sure.

[woodchuck]

I forgot, I cheated working solo, used joist/rafter hangers on the ridge beam, 8/12 pitch and 18' long rafters are HEAVY, putting one end in the hanger really made it easier, and they don't move when nailing.

[seattle]

Wow nice progress Weston! I miss buiding stuff like that.

[Jackson's Dad]

Very impressive!

[SGTDad]

2 by 6's on 12 inch center huh? Now THAT sounds like a job :shock:

Yeah, the building code got a major upgrade right before I got my permit. It was expensive (had to have a structural engineer approve everything - that was $1500 alone) and a lot more work. The benefit, though, is that the building is now rated to withstand 150mph winds.

A 6/12 pitch should be pretty easy, especially if you build yourself a platform.

Hopefully your wife will give you some lovin for all this extra work!

[Weston]

Daddy needs some lovin'!

[Jackson's Dad]

The benefit, though, is that the building is now rated to withstand 150mph winds.

After last hurricane season, that can only be a good thing! (It's probably going to be stronger than your house!)

[Weston]

More progress...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters002a.jpg

Putting OSB on-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters006a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters008a.jpg

Ceiling joists-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters010a.jpg

Rafters-

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters011a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/Workshop_skinrafters012a.jpg

Wifey is going back to work in a few days so my progress will slow down a lot after this weekend :???:

[jeffus]

Cool! 8)

[seattle]

Very nice work! When is it going to be done?

[jeffus]

Very nice work! When is it going to be done?

Were you a manager in your past life? :wink:

[Weston]

Very nice work! When is it going to be done?

Good question :lol:

From now on it's the occasional weekend and evenings to work on it

[Weston]

I still need to finish framing the gable ends and putting plywood on, and facia boards, and then apply the housewrap.... right now I'm working on putting the shingles on

I hate shingles :evil: ... There's no way I would be a roofer for a living


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/workshopshingles1.jpg

[Indy]

Yep, roofing sucks. Especially in the heat of the summer.

[sao95]

good job on the rafters! birds beaks are almost a thing of the past it seems, nice to see them chugchug:

[Weston]

Hey thanks! 8)

[seattle]

Very nice work! When is it going to be done?

Were you a manager in your past life? :wink:

Nope not a manager. Just wondering if it was close to being done. Nice Garage too.

[jeffus]

Dude's a craftsman, ain't he?!

And he wonders what he should do with himself! :wink:

[Weston]

Thank you sir, I've done quite a bit of learning during this process.

Seattle- I'm hoping that I'll have it in condition of a finished storage space (everything but sheetrock, electrical and finished flooring) in about 6 weeks.

I still have some misc. carpentry, then the siding, windows, doors and deck. It really depends on how many weekends I can spend on it.

[Don-Dad]

Is this really your wifes workshop or just a good way to keep her out of the house once it's finished. "look honey, I built you a wonderful workshop, you really need to be out there using it." Door shuts, beer cracks open, put your feet up and no fights over what to watch on TV, you're a genius.

[Weston]

Is this really your wifes workshop or just a good way to keep her out of the house once it's finished. "look honey, I built you a wonderful workshop, you really need to be out there using it." Door shuts, beer cracks open, put your feet up and no fights over what to watch on TV, you're a genius.

and why else would I build it? :lol:

[Weston]

Finally more progress!

My parents came up for a few days so my dad helped me with the housewrap.

Hopefully windows and the door will be in soon - have them sitting in my garage waiting to be installed :)


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/tytto73/workshop_housewrap001a.jpg

[Hockeyfan]

Thats pretty sweet. Wish I had that kinda talent. Can I borrow you for a few days. Need to finish this house so I can sell it.

She's going to love it bro.

[Patrickz]

Nice job Weston! Looks very well made and solid. 8)

[Weston]

Thanks fellas.

Windows and Door are in now.

Next is the Porch.

[Weston]

Thats pretty sweet. Wish I had that kinda talent. Can I borrow you for a few days. Need to finish this house so I can sell it.

She's going to love it bro.

Whatcha need help on dude? Might could make a trip to "the city" next week sometime 8)

[DarthDaddy]

Pretty Darn cool.... 8)

[Hockeyfan]

I have to put in three lower stairs. So I have to figure out what wood to get and then do some masterful routing. Yeah right...

I also have to put in a front door. I bought a pre-hung door and as long is it is like a window (just a tad larger), I should be able to do it. Got a few other tasks to do like removing grout from a shower to be re-done and overhaul a bathroom. Just about got the flooring in the upstairs hallway. That sucked.

So mainly small jobs, but they take time. I am really striving to have this house for sale soon. The longer I wait....

I appreciate the offer though. Come to the "big City" and we could go to the park or something though. Your more than welcome to swing by the ranch though. Actually know any electrical tricks. My big problem is I have a circuit (not sure if thats the right word) that decided to stop working. Nothing is off at teh breaker so I am thinking that a wire came loose or something from the wires that feed the breaker. If you could help me with that I would be eternally grateful. It powers almost all of my crawlspace lighting and all of the power outlets in the crawlspace. Actually it is more of a workshop.

[Weston]

Definitely help you with the electrical problem... at least I can take a look at it and try to figure what's wrong.

8)

[Hockeyfan]

Cool deal. Just give me a ring or PM me and let me know what day you wanna hit the big town and we could shoot over to the North Cary park or something. Thats the one that is in between Cary Parkway and Weston.