Isolation from stay at home moms

[Anonymous]

Have any of you cracked the code on the reason why stay at home moms are so exclusionary? I am the wife of a stay at home dad. We are at our wits end as to why the moms that are at home treat him like he's some type of Freak. It's hard when he takes the kids to the park and a whole group of moms have organized a play time for the kids and not invited ours. (SO FRUSTRATING!!!) Our kids haven't yet noticed they are being excluded, but it's only a matter of time.....

Have any of you been able to figure out why it's such a big deal do include a dad in on a play date? As a woman I am APPALLED at the behavior of my gender!!

Please don't suggest contacting other SAHD--we live in a SMALL town and there ARE NONE!! And I really want to understand what these women's problems are!!

Thanks Guys!!

[Anonymous]

I know the feeling fo what your husband is feeling, even though I live near Houston. I take my child to go play and the woman look at me like I am looking for a date, but I am married and have a child duh. Or they look at me like I am a sicko, but I am with my own child. It will change, but slowly for men are becoming stay at home. Me and my wife are good friends, adn understand. I have a degree and I served in the army for ten years, but she works and makes good money. So I get to go lift weights and running with my kid. I clean dishes andlaundry, and I am better than most at doing laundry and other chorses. I get some of the wierdest looks when i tell them I have to do laundry or cook, and I stay home and take care of teh kids is the taboo of the centry.

[tt3]

Certainly not cracked the code, interesting to hear a mom even suggest there is one though :)
I'm making light of a subject that I think we all deal with.

I am not sure what motivates, but I think there is some sense of superiority instilled in being able to exclude others. I've also heard of SAHM's excluding members of their own group when they get a part time job.
I get that "don't talk to me, sicko" vibe once in a while, it makes me wonder what goes on in the head of the person. See my post "argh"

I've got to be honest though, there are decent moms out there, who are willing to let the dads join in the play groups. Look around and keep trying. The women that would exclude your husband simply because he's a man are also the women that sit around with each other compairing and competing through their kids. You know the type? "Johny did this" "suzie said this"
Then they run home and try to get their kids to one up the others. I don't want to be around that, and I don't want my daughter around that either.

Have your husband sign in here and vent a bit with us. Aaronlc1, please do the same. We're all craving conversation from others in our predicament, our chosen career! It helps just being able to swap stories or say "man, this sucks today" and have others pitch in, because they're right there with you.
Hope my ramblings help!

[Don-Dad]

Ditto to what Tony aka TT3 mentioned.

Funny thing was today at the YMCA I was talking iwht one of my sons "Y" friends moms about this very same issue. She daid she was part of a group that has some men as well, Suprise, suprise, they do exist.

Have your husband sign up here. Great place to vent at least. Are you out in the middle of nowhere or are their other small or larger towns close by? Maybe a 15 minute drive to the next town might have some possiblities? AS a subsitute for playgroups, check out the local libraries story time or if you have a YMCA close by they usually have lots of kids programs.

good luck!

[Anonymous]

I really enjoy going to the ymca, good day care, and good learning experience for both me and my child

[tt3]

Oh, we love the Y, I try and make it two or three times a week. It gives Tara a chance to play with other kids, and it give me a chance to blow off some steam.
The library is also a super place to go, we've got a "toddler time" and a story time for older kids, and its a blast. We go every week. Tara doesn't much pay attention to the stories, but she loves watching the kids. There's always the kid that makes total disruption a hobby and the mom that just looks on with that "aww how cute" look on her face. Oops, slipping into rant mode...
It was at story time that I got to see a perfect example of that mom competition. There was a group of moms with kids around 3 or 4 months (I think). One of them got her kid to sit up on her own, then the others saw and started trying to get their kids to do the same, then another stood her kid up and let go, so they all had to try the same thing. Funny to witness, but I felt sory for the kids.
Whoah, I'm rambling again, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Those are some interesting thoughts--TT3, I had NEVER considered the competition issue as well as the "superiority of exclusion" possibility. And you're right, these aren't the type of women we want to associate with anyway!! I guess we just have to be patient and "do our own thing" until we meet a higher caliber mom in our area.

And Louis, my hubby is GORGEOUS :wink: (hmmmmm...maybe it's not the wives that are the problem, but their husbands :D )

Thanks, all of you for your feedback. You guys are AWESOME!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

[tt3]

Well now! that's a plus. Like I tell everyone... thank God Junior looks like his mom! ...

Thats exactly my sentiments! :D I'm glad Tara looks like her mommy!

[Remington]

It's probably because you're husband's ugly
I was thinking the same thing..... just kidding!

I think a lot of it has to do with the superiority issue. They do it because they can. It is a way of getting back at men for sticking them at home with the kids since the beginning of time.

Women just act differently than men in general. Women are weird in groups. They are very clique.

[jeffus]

OK, Here I go...this is one of my favorite topics! Thought about it alot!

- they, like most people, think we're losers who can't find "real jobs"
- they're worried we might be better at parenting -- My opinion is that women are better at multi-tasking, men tend to focus on one task and try to do it as well as possible. Multi-tasking usually means everything gets done but nothing gets done quite right.
- I've heard some mommies say their hubbies might not be comfortable with them hanging around with another guy (guess that's a flaw in their relationship).
- Stigma: most child molesters are men. Although gender-equality seems to be making progress in that area, sadly.
- They wish their husbands were more involved with their kids and don't like being reminded that men are, in fact, capable of being responsible, caring, and loving caregivers.
- Hate the fact that their kid's Dad is working ridiculous hours and junior never gets to see Dad and they do not like being reminded of it every second they gaze upon your visage.
- They really despise you because you kid is playing and sharing so much better than theirs and you sit there confidently while they are continually 'reminding' junior to play nice.
- They particulary hate me because I can actually explain why the sky is blue.
- I'm/we're not obsessed with junior's percentile ranking. (She's actually doing quite well at 3 and has pretty much mastered all the requirements for kindergarten 2 years ahead of schedule - that really pisses them off!)
- People love to hate successful people, especially the one's who make it look easy. We fret behind the scenes, they pour out their woes to each other publicly, over coffee, during a playdate, etc.
- We can't possibly look this good without make-up.
- They have to continue playing the Mommy-game. We weren't let in so we gave up and don't really give a damn anymore. We'll find our own way. I don't think that an acceptable option for them (the ladies).
- They're just waiting for the first Daddy-rights lawsuit to be filed, so they're not talking to the adversary.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are those of the postee and not of DadStayHome.com. And Dad's rule! Rock on Daddies! :wink:

[Don-Dad]

Great Post Jeff! Might have to steal that for content on the home page :wink:

[Don-Dad]

BTW Jeff, time to get an avatar so we can see your cute daughter!

[tt3]

Awwman, Jeff, those were golden. You had me chuckling here!

Dads Rule!

[jeffus]

Got to work on the avatar thingie. Glad I got it to work. Have to make it nice.

[Anonymous]

WOW, what a list!!!

Do you mind if I print it and post it on my refrigerator for my hubby???

You have no idea how much this helps--thanks for the laugh!!

And thanks gentlemen for letting me in.

MrsMrMom

[Jackson's Dad]

Many of the parenting books out there take a similar tone of superiority. They either ignore the role of the father, or are often dismissive to the point of being insulting. We have one of the more popular books (I think it's the "your baby week by week"), and they have these special little "Dad Notes" sprinkled throughout the chapters that have such low expectations for men. During the pregnancy section, one of the suggestions was "Husbands, if you will be out of town for a long time, try to call home once and a while". (Hmm, ok, me call if me figure out phone ughhhhh.) I mean, come on!

Ugh, you just have to laugh.

Dan

[tt3]

Well that even goes to those parenting magazines, Parents I think is the one we got, its got what, two hundred pages of adds and articles for the ladies and their babies, and then a one page dad column. I realize we're a miniscule portion of the market, but...
If you want a real laugh on this topic, read those "Girlfriends guide" books.
:roll:

[mjknapp]

Ive had just the opposite problem, I get along well with women, My neighbor stays at home with her kids, and we get along great, she is always inviting me to her playgroups. At gymnastics, there were 4 woman that would gather around me and want to talk about me staying home, how we handled it, and so on. But I would flirt a little just to make it fun.

Nice post Jeff, some good points.

[Don-Dad]

Mike,

your a bad, bad boy :wink:

I get along with the women at the YMCA. THey all think its great I stay at home but sometime you feel like a bit of a novelty.

I did get invited to my first playgroup this week, 4 years too late, hehehe. My oldest is off at kindergarden now and my 1 year old loves to go to the YMCA and I also drop him off at the gym we do TaeKwonDo at once a week for an hour so he gets lots of playtime with other kids. Women, who needs em' HA!

[waldo]

I've been at home with my 2 boys for about a year now and am just finally able to answer the question "So what do you do, Chris?" with a straight answer instead of having to always follow it with "but I am trying to get a business going at home" or "but I do some painting on the side". I am a stay -at-home-dad dangit. And thats enough.

My experience with play groups has been pretty good so far. But I often get comments like "So you have the boys today huh?" asked with a sly grin. Ummm yes and every other day thank you.

I so much connect with Jeffs comment about the kids having better behavior than most others while I sit and happily watch them interact. And let me tell you, my 4 year-old is hell on wheels but he is still polite and is very gentle with the babies crawling around. He's not afraid to get a little rough with some of the boys and as long as I know there is no malice intentions I think its great. Most moms seems to jump at the first sign of tugging or wrestling (this in not bashing moms, just an observation in different preference I guess.)

Anyways, great posts here and good to vent a little bit, hehe.


Waldo

[Anonymous]

my problem is that I am really loud person, so natural my child copies me. I try to tone it down, but ten years of military done it for me. So that is strike one, then I have a lot of tattoos, so I must be a freak. But nobody seems to see the real me, just my exsterier, and I am a competive powerlifter, so I am short but big. So that is strike three, and my daughter is a real hyper child. So that must be my fault, even though I am add and no what it is like to be hyper. So the mothers look at me like I should not have kids, but alas i have two beutiful children. I take her to the playground and let her do her own thing, if other children play with her that is just fine with me.

[tt3]

oohoo, good stuff to reply to here today! Waldo, I get that "so what do you do" and I tell them, and then if they are aquaintences I get to hear "so how's the writing going" as a complete change in subject. So be it. I still find myself adding "I write a little on the side" but its occuring with less frequency. (Both the writing and me adding it ;) )
Aaron, the most decorated person I know is working on her full sleaves, and has one calf covered, and no-thank-you-I-don't-want-to-know-about-any-others. Its real easy to look past the body art if it bugs you, knowing her, because she is super awesome, and would do anything to help you out. A little earlier this summer I was at a playground and there were a group of dads that looked like they stepped out of an LL Bean catalog, their kids were absolutely rotten, raising holy terror throwing sand fighting and almost bowling over my daughter (that really pisses me off :evil: ) but they stood there in their poses chatting about who knows what. I didn't bother introducing myself to them...
You want to hear something really funny, too? I was in powerlifting in highschool, and even placed tenth in my weight class at the first meet!

ya know how many guys were in my weight class?

10! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Remington]

Jeff, what a list and I hate to say it but you are right on target. Our society is just geared that way.

I've been at home with my 2 boys for about a year now and am just finally able to answer the question "So what do you do, Chris?" with a straight answer instead of having to always follow it with "but I am trying to get a business going at home" or "but I do some painting on the side". I am a stay -at-home-dad dangit. And thats enough.
Wow... I think we can all relate to this. I know I can. When I first started out as a stay at home dad and people asked me what I did I would skip the stay at home dad part even and go straight to "I work out of my home."

It is true. I work out of my home with kids all day long. I then shifted to, I stay at home and watch my kids and work part time online. Then it shifted to I am a stay at home dad.

A lot of your reaction will also stem from how you tell them. I found better reactions when I just come out and say it. It isn't some damn disease.

"Hi my name is Steve and I am an alcoholic"

[mjknapp]

wow, come on guys, I am proud to be a stay at home dad, and when I tell people I am, they always follow it with 20 questions. I just say it how it is. I am a stay at home dad. Proud to be it, with no regrets or excuses.

Just tell people what you do, it will get you further than telling them a story about a home based business, or about painting on the side. Even if I had a stay at home business, I would tell a person that second, only after I tell them I am a stay at home dad. That is my first responsibility and my first response.

[Remington]

Well, I am with ya. It just took me a long time.

Currently I am very proud of it and there is actually more opportunity for me and what I wanted to do then when I was the one working everyday.

[tt3]

Hey, I still get days where I get down on myself for not being able to "earn a living". Just happened a few days ago moving crap down into my office, I found my other college diploma and was debating taking it out of the frame and putting in the "United States Beer Drinking Team" membership certificate!
Its tough sometimes.
Then I get Tara to laugh and its all good, ya know?

[SAHF]

I am very proud to be a SAHD!

I love the looks I get when I place that on my applications for insurance, job applications (part time nights) and such. I get more questions and applauds just because I am so up beat about my job.

Would I do it again if my wife got pregnate again :?:

Hell...............NO....only because I would be divorced because I have been fixed! :evil:

:D :D

[tt3]

You can restart your career... but can't restart you kid.

:shock: Best Darn Advice I Ever Got. :yawinkle:

Hey, I like that! :D =D>

[Remington]

That is a good point. Plus where in the rule book of life does it say we need to follow the same path as every other person. Can you spell b-o-r-i-n-g

:wink:

[SAHF]

The Road Less Traveled!

[Anonymous]

to tt3, i am glad to hear people understand body art. And with the powerlifting, just the act of showing up to the meet is a winning act. It is not wether or not you win or loose, but tried your best. A famous person said the dad one won for the kid tried. I hope my child plays a sport that she wants to, not because she things she has to. I was never really good in sports until powerlifting. It is true that being a sahd you seem like the creepy old guy syndrom, but I got the wierd vibe from other sahd's like you said, had there i am true dork uniform on and was thinking there you know what does not stink. but that are people that I would not even talk to even if I did not have a child.

[tt3]

"I am a true dork" uniform! Priceless!!!
:lol: :lol: =D>

I lifted because it was a rush and I really enjoyed it. Hated the deadlift though after tearing one callus off, that was enough, the second one was just pure crazy.

Don't worry here, none of us would diss another stay-at-home-dad on board, right guys?
Register with us, chat along!

[KevD]

We have the best job in the world....don't ever forget it. Screw the people that look down on us. They are not worth worrying about. I know that my wife loves that I am doing this, and I also know that my son will appreciate this when he is old enough to understand. I have an uncle that recently told me that he stayed home with his oldest daughter while he was going back for his MBA at night. He said that to this day he feels like he is closer with her than his other daughter, and she is 17 now. Now just think what he must have gone through being a SAHD 17 years ago!! Somehow she turned out okay....graduated from high school as a straight A student and starting college this week on an academic scholarship! Wow, I guess dads can raise their children after all......

[Anonymous]

that is great, i really enjoy it myself, getting to take her to the park is the best thing in the world.

[matellicblue]

I have to say I love being SAHD. The family came around, still get some smart alleck remarks from my brother in-law but we have a great relationship so I know it is all in fun.

I'm really enjoying this year Selina 7 is in first and Katrina is in kindergarten so I get 2 whole days to spend with Duncan 4 just me and him. He loves it as much as me. I don't let the mother's at the park get me down. I feel as long as the kids are all playing together alls good.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[mjknapp]

Now just think what he must have gone through being a SAHD 17 years ago!!


Yeah, I bet he went through alot more then, but that was in the late 80's, the 60's would have been harder than that.....lol

[Remington]

I wonder if she regrets ever speaking that way about your old neighbor now that you are a SAHD.

[mjknapp]

You grew up in Jamaica, wow, the surprises keep on coming, that is pretty cool, Growing up in paradise, but from what you just described, didnt sound tp much like paradise then.......

[Diamondb]

I've experienced the exclusion a number of times, and for the most part ignore it. I am not a people person, while not anti-social, I generally have little desire to socialize with many people. So for the most part, exclusion doesn't bother me in the slightest. However, it does bug me that because I'm a SAHD, my son doesn't get as much socialization as he desires.

Interestingly enough I've found that it's the LDS (Mormon) SAHMs that are the worst about this. Of course that just may be my location (Idaho) and the large LDS population density. What I find really obnoxious is that I'm LDS as well. For the most part, and I hear this mostly from my wife and her interaction with these moms, is they consider it aberrant behavior that the father should be the one at home (regardless of the fact that my wife makes twice what I did, and always will).

One thing I've noticed is that when talking to an individual mom at a park I'm not judged as odd. So while, Josh doesn't get to socialize with as many kids, I've taken to going to the park at less busy hours, where I'm likely to only have a couple of moms there, and who are generally nice to talk to.

[jeffus]

Since we're bumping old threads lately! :)

[spk]

One thing I've noticed is that when talking to an individual mom at a park I'm not judged as odd. So while, Josh doesn't get to socialize with as many kids, I've taken to going to the park at less busy hours, where I'm likely to only have a couple of moms there, and who are generally nice to talk to.

I've definitely noticed this as well. And isn't it such a bitch that the MILFs turn out to be the most d-baggy and self-absorbed of them all? I'm not about to hit on any of them but I can't even make eye contact with them so as to try to engage their child with mine a bit, they're yakking on the phone or yelling at their kids. Yuck. On the other hand, I've had wonderfully engaging conversations with the grandmas of kids whenever we go to the park, which truth be told is normally during kind of off-hours (after 12:30pm).

[North Country Dad]

Maybe SAHMs are threatened. Maybe they see us and think, "What a loser. He can't even find a job."

I'll tell you, even when I take my kid gymnastics and all the parents sit there watching for an hour, all the women gab and rarely will one of them invite me in on a joke or turn my way.






Maybe I should shower once in a while and change out of my pj's.

:shock: