corporal punishment

[tt3]

What are your thoughts on spanking, guys? Current feelings in our society is its frowned upon and viewed as child abuse and never condoned. I think in very limited circumstances it is very effective and memorable. A bad use would be a spanking for hitting a sibling, or another violent act. Reinforces violence, "you may be bigger then little jimmy, but I'm still bigger then you" Wrong message.
When the offense can produce heavier damage then the spanking, have at it. Unfortunately I can't think of anything other then what I got spanked for as a kid, throwing a stone at a motorcyclist. Bad Idea. He stopped, got off his bike, went to my house and promptly informed my mother. I was maybe 6 or 7. Still remember it though.
Your thoughts?

[Don-Dad]

My mom use to spank us alot. Probably too much. And she used more than just her hand, spatulas, wooden spoons, platics spoons, and more.

I tried to avoid the spanking but sometimes it seems to be the only thing my son responds to. He gets a spanking maybe once a week and only after all other forms of punishments have not worked (go to your room, timeout, site at the table with your head down, etc...)

I find now that I only have to threaten a spanking and usually say "OK. I'm gonna count to five and if your not behaving than I am going to give you a spanking."

[jeffus]

I spank randomly just to keep her guessing. Never knows when its coming so she's good all the time.... :twisted:

Nah, I guess if you averaged it out, I've spanked her once a year.

-Once for unrolling all the toilet paper in the bathroom then going into the linen closet, getting bulk pack, and having at that. The spanking occurred after the 3rd night in a row. She was warned...

-Once for completely tossing the refrigerator contents three nights in a row. She was warned....

- And 1 time, she was sitting on the edge of the bed with me. For no good reason, she slapped me upside the head but good. I instinctively slapped her right back (using everything I had to slow my reaction down so as to not cause serious harm!)

So I think spanking as a last resort should be a part of every parent's toolbox. Just one that hopefully rusts before you need to use it again.

And to all those who'd file charges...butt out! I always kind of wondered why no one ever stopped me when I'd carry her out of the mall over my shoulder kicking and screaming.

[tt3]

... I always kind of wondered why no one ever stopped me when I'd carry her out of the mall over my shoulder kicking and screaming.

I've wondered what would happen as well. I think that situation could get very ugly. A dad, already short fused by a screaming kicking toddler, confronted by some rent-a-cop mall security. Yeah, ugly.

[EX Race Driver]

If I was at a neighbors house and I did something that deserved a spanking, I got it, then I got another when my Dad heard about it. And I expect the same for my sons. If they are at the neighbors and they do something that deserves it by God give it to him!!! The neighbors also know I beleive this and they know if their kid is at my house and they do something serious enough to deserve it they get it. Alot of parents in the neighborhood won't let their kids here but ALL the kids respect me and don't act up around me.

Don't get me wrong I am by no means beating or abusing my boys but if they deserve it they get it. Well the 8 year old... The 8 month old isn't old enough yet.

EVERYBODY compliments my 8 year old for being so well behaved and respectful..Yes Ma'am, Yes Sir, May I, Can I.... His teachers send home notes weekly praising him for being such a joy to have in class.

Society and Parents have let things get way out of hand with kids... I didn't disrespect my teachers, family, or elders.

Columbine happened AFTER prayer and spanking was taken out of school...WONDER WHY!?!?!?!?!?...When Daddy doesnt know what is going on in his own garage Daddy should be locked up! Along with Momma!

If my kid deserves it, My kid gets it...Just like when I grew up.

My blood is now boiling...Sorry about the rant...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[jeffus]

8 months is a little young to start spanking...Give it another month!

I agree ExRacer. If they deserve it, serve it!

I get no respect on the playgrounds from the kids. I get smart aleck replies and backtalk say, when someone knocks my kid over and I say something. When I was a kid and ANY adult said something, I paid attention (most of the time).

I know a couple of teachers that are so disgusted with the lack of discipline that they're bailing out. Can't give 'em detention cause junior will miss his 'after-care', can't yell at 'em - that's verbal abuse, can't discipline too much - you're picking on him. Know what - that teacher's been there for years. The problem aint' the teacher - its your kid. But NO, there's no way a teacher could say that and still keep his/her job today.

I feared and respected the teacher. (Never got hit by one). I knew I was one phone call, one note home, one parent-teacher conference away from some unpleasant outcome (usually a grounding, no TV, etc). And I knew I deserved it when it did happen.

Hope I didn't steal your thunder EX!

[Don-Dad]

Jeff, Think about things as our kids get older, the disrespect thing is only going to get worse. We have chosen to raise our kids to the best of our abilities but when our kids get older, they will be hanging out with all the latchkey kids and those kids whose parents have been out chasing the almighty dollar and not raising their own children. This actually scares me a bit :?

Speaking of the good manners, I have found that TaeKwonDo has been very good for both me and my son. I started him in TKD in Feb. and then I joined him a few months ago. All responses are "Yes Sir or Yes Mam, Thank You Sir, Sorry Sir." I find myself using these phrases more often nd my son is following suit. If your looking for a good activity to do with your child after they reach the age of 4 or 5, try a martial art.

[jeffus]

Yeah, it's the other kids that scare me more. She's gone to pre-school the last three weekends and all I get is attitude. She used to say Yes and No, Thank you - now it's yup, nope. That's just 9 hours of external influence in 3 years. All that work shot to hell in 9 hours. There's no hope for the future!

My kid is going to be hanging out with other kids whose parents bought them everything they ever wanted out of guilt. How can I compete?

Hopefully, I can teach her the importance of good manners, chosing friends wisely, and working hard toward goals (something all the other kid will absolutely not appreciate!).

[jeffus]

And I'm just

[jeffus]

1 post away from getting into the

[jeffus]

top 10 posters club. Yes! He does it!

Cinderalla story! Kids comes out of no where and takes the slot from Underfoot!

Sorry about that guys....I had a 'competitive' moment and gave in to it...

My name is Jeff and I'm a competer. I've been competing now for 38 years....Well, it all started when....

[Don-Dad]

My son's pre-K was great, all about manners. It was run by the public school district so the teachers were certified, masters level educated.

He's in kindergarden now and I know that they have been very good about teaching manners. He tells me all the time about other kids using bad manners and getting their names written on the board. But the other kids do scare me, its not so bad now but wait til they hit the pre-teen years.

Short story about pre-teens and bad manners. We were at Six Flags eating dinner in one of those sit down places during some rain. These 4 punk kids, maybe 13 years old, flicked food our way. I got up and said something to them. They looked at me with shit eating grins. I was pissed, no apology, well a half asses , Sorry. They were being very rude to the waitress and did not even leave a tip. No parents in site. Unfortunately our kids will be around kids like that and that scares the crap out of me.

[benj]

It’s time we be more honest about this whole issue. First and foremost, discipline is not about punishment. [Latin for discipulus ‘learn’]. We as parents must teach our kids how to work through a problem, not make them suffer because of it.
From a kid’s point of view, smacking is scary and humiliating. From a parent’s point of view (especially us men), it is risky. Risky because there isn’t a clear cut point where a smack becomes a hit and a hit becomes an angry venting of parental frustration. Attitudes to hitting children have changed. Today, a bruised child is a police matter.
Ask yourself this question guys and be honest. How do you know how much is enough? Can you honestly say when you are hitting for your kids ‘benefit,’ and when it’s just to make you feel better?
The bottom line (no pun intended) is that smacking really doesn’t work except in the very short term. It eats away at love and trust, so your kid gets crankier still. I have seen my niece and nephews learn to become immune to it and say to their parents, ‘That didn’t hurt! I don’t care.’ (A manifestation of Louis’s cane tale).
‘I spank only when she’s totally out of control,’ I think that the parents who whale into their kids in the supermarket are out of control themselves and clearly losing control of their children, not gaining it.

Why do parents smack kids? ‘It seems so illogical, Jim.’ The fact of it is, if we’re honest, we hit kids because of our own needs. We’re scared of losing or have lost control over them. Often with young children our nurturing energy runs out. We all get exhausted, sleep deprived, we never have a moment to ourselves. The slap is just our inner self striking back, saying, ‘Look mate, I’ve got needs too!’
You first time parents, be aware. At this age, kids can’t always understand or notice dad’s feelings or our words to them. Remember they’re the centre of their own universe. Yet we feel a strong urge to make an impact, to have an effect on their behaviour. So smacking them to ‘get their attention’ is a natural urge. We need to resist this urge, and can do so if we improve our skill in connecting with our kids and making them notice by using better methods.
Don’t fool yourself by arguing the theory that littler hits prevent big ones. For soon the little hits don’t work. Kids will get resentful; they hit their own siblings or hit you back. It’s important to draw the line, and a realistic place to draw it is back at square one. If we decide NEVER to hit our kids- then we are committed to finding better ways.
For those of you that say, ‘spanking as a ‘last resort’ should be part of every parent’s toolbox,’ think again. It’s not a tool, it’s a weapon. Or those that say, ‘If my kid deserves it, he gets it, just like when I grew up.’ Get with the times mate. There are new and better methods out there. What kids deserve are better parenting skills, not smacks. For those of you that have little tolerance, this is dangerous. For those of you that think leaving the cart and going home, NOPE, that sends the wrong message too. Some of you blokes really need to rethink your parenting skills here. Get out of the dark ages. ‘You do the best that you know how’, not good enough, mate. There are much better methods that work, so get to know them. I’ll share with you ‘two of the best’ in another post.

I probably got some blood boiling in some of you blokes, good because you’re the ones that need to read this post. We do have to discipline kids. And words are not enough with the little ones.
I know a guy that blocks out the memory of the pain of his dad’s punishment he felt as kid. Others never forget it. (The Don still remembers his mum’s wooden spoons and spatulas.) The scars are visible on the outside, but usually are much bigger on the inside. If a child cannot feel safe and secure with its own parents, how can it feel safe in the world?
There’s another reason to stop hitting children. Evidence is mounting that children who feel safe with their parents will tell them if something is wrong- for instance, if they have been se xually assaulted. When parents routinely use fear and shame as discipline tools, then children will feel unsafe to tell, in case they get the blame. Kids who are never frightened or harmed by their parents will always see their parents primarily as protectors.

As sahds, we’re on the front line. We have the potential to make the difference. Make the decision. Abandon hitting as a way to control your kids. I have. The first step is simple. Make a personal commitment never to hit a child again. Do it!
The automatic effect is that you become committed to finding non-violent discipline methods that work. Such methods exist, and are able to be mastered. I use the ‘Stand and think and ‘dealing’ method, much better than ‘Time out.’
I have used the SaT&D method and the proof is in the pudding. Like I said, I have never had to hit or shout at my kid, ever! And like Xrace, my son too gets endless compliments on his manners and behaviour.
I will post this method in the ‘Advice’ forum to keep this hot topic down to a James Michener epic novel. In the beginning, I made a sign and stuck in the front room reading, ‘We Don’t Hit or Shout in this House,’ to help remind me in when I saw red. It helped force me to use my other methods.
If you find yourself in agreement, you can make this commitment too. Your child will come to know that their parents will never, ever harm them. They are safe in their own home. Perhaps one day all children can grow up without fearing their parents in any way. Could you imagine how good that would feel? Please consider.

[tt3]

Thanks for your input guys. Great points of view, and thought provoking as well.
In quick defense of "latchkey kids" I was one through school, and as my mom says "you turned out ok" :lol:
There is a point here, when we look at the system today, at least in the U.S. where parents are expecting teachers and daycare to do their jobs. I've posted before that I am a licensed teacher in MN, high school Biology. After the fun :roll: of student teaching I realized I couldn't hack it. Maybe after my kids are in school, I'll go back for a masters and teach, but right now, this is where I'll stay.
I never would imagine my folks taking my side instead of the teachers when they call about behavior issues. Hearing a parent accuse you of picking on their kid because they can't do their homework or pay attention for ten minutes wears on you.
Breakfast time, more to come.

(This is one of the best things about this board, open discussion about parenting!)

[homewithtwins]

I see spanking as an admission of failure. If you resort to spanking you have admitted that you cannot find a better way or that you cannot control your own emotions.

My parents used corporal punishment. With my mother it was ineffective past age 7 or 8. With my father it was rare but always to harsh. In the long run my fathers form of punishment made it more difficult for us to develop a good adult relationship.

[tt3]

For those of you that think leaving the cart and going home, NOPE, that sends the wrong message too. Some of you blokes really need to rethink your parenting skills here.
Can you expand on this? If my 18month old melts down in the store, what should I do besides just leave? Don't say prevent the melt down, because that will work, but inevitably I may be off my game at some point and it will happen. (Yeah, I know, she's 22 months now, but I deal with it quite differently now.)

Discipline and punishment definitions are easily intermixed. I think its the break down of discipline that leads to punishment. Or if you prefer, corrective measures to exterminate the unwanted behavior.

My sisinlaw apologises when her 5 year old acts up, and says he never acts that way when its just them. I talked with her about it and she said she feels uncomofortable asserting corrective measures in front of others for what they will think of her. I told her she should never worry about that in front of us, and the reason he's acting out is because he knows she won't do anything. I told her to worry more about what we'll think if she doesn't do anything. ;) I'm not talking spanking, either

benj, I'm still skirting your main response as its still churning in my head. Not avoiding responing, just mulling.

[EX Race Driver]

Oh My Lord, Where do I start.....NO personal attacks here so don't take it that way...


Benj wrote:
It’s time we be more honest about this whole issue. First and foremost, discipline is not about punishment. [Latin for discipulus ‘learn’]. We as parents must teach our kids how to work through a problem, not make them suffer because of it.
From a kid’s point of view, smacking is scary and humiliating. From a parent’s point of view (especially us men), it is risky. Risky because there isn’t a clear cut point where a smack becomes a hit and a hit becomes an angry venting of parental frustration. Attitudes to hitting children have changed. Today, a bruised child is a police matter.
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If you smack your kids anywhere than the bottom IT IS ABUSE!!!!..
If you bruise your child...IT IS ABUSE!!!!

If I see you do either I will do the same to you!!!!! I promise you a trip to the Emercency Room!!!

My sister has a 4 year old son that has NEVER been spanked... That child is a hellian... Everyone in the family would rather spend time with my 8 year old...but they don't tell them that..

I agree there is a fine line between abusing and spanking...That is why I made myself and my son a promise that I would NEVER spank while I was mad...My 8 yr old knows when he does something wrong and I tell him to come back and see me in a few minutes that I am mad... Usually he doesn't get a spanking after I calm down but he knows when he gets it he has done something where he deserves it...
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Benj
Ask yourself this question guys and be honest. How do you know how much is enough? Can you honestly say when you are hitting for your kids ‘benefit,’ and when it’s just to make you feel better?


If you don't know how much is too much or how hard is too hard you do not need to be doing it!!!

I NEVER spank "to make me feel better"... My 8 yr old hasn't needed a spanking in over a year...and there is one reason for that, He knows if he deserves it he will get it...
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Benj
....we hit kids because of our own needs

BULLSHIT!!!!
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My 8 yr old and his sister DO NOT hit each other.....But my sisters kids do... wonder why????!!!
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I have said on here before that I grew up with an abusive alcoholic father..

I do not use that as an excuse for anything and anyone who does use that as an excuse needs to GROW UP... I don't care how old they are...

I will never be either one... I learned from my Dad what is abuse and what is dicipline...

To this day my Dad gets only respect from me and my kids....I still say Yes Sir and No Sir to my Dad and so do my kids...


If you spank, smack or strike in any way while you are mad or while you "see red" you are not much of a parent and deserve to have your child(ren) taken away from you....

My kids are growing up in a loving and caring environment and they know they can talk to me and my wife about anything...They also know as long as they tell the truth there will never be a spanking because of it... no matter what it is...

Put prayer and spanking back in schools and home and watch the world change.......

Columbine shouldn't have happened and wouldn't have if those kids had gotten the attention they needed...Dad didnt know what was going on in his own garage!!!!!...There is something very very wrong there...Don't feel guilty because both parents work and give your kids everything they want because of it... You don't need that $300,000 home or that $50,000 SUV.... You do need to teach your kids what love and respect are...

Pray with your kids.. Teach your kids that every action has a consequence and what those consequences are, good or bad...

If your kid disrespects his teacher he needs to know he will have to pay for it in one way or another... first time grounded... second time, a red bottom should take care of it... if the grounding doesn't take care of it you are doing something wrong as a parent... If he doesnt know that if he does it again the consequence will be more severe something is wrong at home!!!!!

My 13 yr old neice was caught laying on top of a 17 yr old boy the other week... She was grounded for a week.. no phone, tv, company, no anything...... After that week was up it wasn't 2 days they were caught in a car doing the same thing... She looked at her mom and said "All you are going to do is ground me again" .... Do you think it would have happened the second time if she knew that she would have a sore ass if she did it again?? IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED THE FIRST TIME!!!!!

Luckily they were fully dressed... The 17 yr old's parents said "We just can't do anything with him." .... They would be able to if he knew there would be serious consequences next time....

OK I've made enough people mad....Not going to apologize for it because it's the way I feel... As I said at the top this was not meant as a personal attack so please dont take it that way....

[Don-Dad]

How am i suppose to get my housework done if you guys make me read these long winded posts :)

Very thought provoking post and we all are entitled to our opinions and some stronger than others. What we too must remember is all children are different. Some kids are just more mellow by nature and those children probably require alot less discipline and spanking was never an option cause you really never had to even tell your child "no." I have seen this in some of our neighbors kids, like down the road, just the sweetest mellow little girl you would ever meet, but her brother is like my boys, heck on two feet. Now my son is heck on wheels, started the terrible 2's the second year of life. I am partly to blame for some of his aggressive behavior as I have been home with him since he was 12 weeks old and we always played rough, wrestling, running around the house, etc... So now he gets in a little trouble at school for some minor pushing and shoving, but he is not even five yet so alot of it is a maturity issue. But he is polite and a good kid, just sometimes, maybe once a month, he gets a spanking. I do not consider myself a bad parent or an abusive one. My mom did spank us often and I really tried to promise myself I would not do the same. But I have found that the OCCASIONAL spanking is effective.

Like Ex-Racer, I'm the first one to get pissed if i see someone beating their kids and one quality my wife really hates about me is that I have a hard time not expressing my opinion. One party we wer attending, a guy said that they used a belt to spank their child who is less than 2 years old. I just about got up and with my belt to spank this guy. Now that is wrong. But a spanking on the bottom, every once in the while is not going to leave permanent scares. Bad analogy coming, Your child falls of their bike and gets a cut, maybe stitches even, you think they are never going to ride that bike again? If your child fell everyday and was sent to the hospital for stitches they might never try riding that bike again. But if it happens every so often you can get they will love riding that bike all the time. So a few spankings is not going to make your child fearful of you unless you beat them silly. (I hope that was not a terrible analogy)

I'm curious if this could be cultural as well? Benj is American but living down under (and if I remember you have been their for a while now). Is the violence in schools bad in Australia or are the kids having sex as young as they do in the US? Our the kids subject to the same crap on TV and do more parents stay at home or is daycare prevalent there as well? Not to get too far of topic but part of the reason I wanted someone to stay home (besides the fact that my real father left us when I was 3 years old and of course my wife made more money) was because of stories like this http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/ I was living not too far from this city at the time they investigated the problem and these kids lived in huge house with parents that had lots of money. These kids were probably never spanked either, hehehe! (joking)

Benj, your post was very good and thought provoking. Though It really urks me when some folks get that holier than thou and I know what's best for everyones kids. Your post comes off that way. I think that is what heated up Ex Racer :)

Anyhow, great discussion.

[EX Race Driver]

Benj, your post was very good and thought provoking. Though It really urks me when some folks get that holier than thou and I know what's best for everyones kids. Your post comes off that way. I think that is what heated up Ex Racer :)


You're right....

And not all kids respond to the same punishment... My 10 yr old stepdaughter doesn't respond to spanking...grounding and writing works for her.... There is no call to keep spanking a child that doesn't respond to it... it doesn't work for her it does for the older boy...

A question for those that do spank....At what age do you start popping hands for grabbing things that they shouldn't or pulling hair and at what age do you move to the old pop on the diaper....I think Lil Chris was 2 before he got a pop on the rump.

[Don-Dad]

Dang Ex that was quick, I edited my post and added a few tidbits, off topic of course :wink:

[tt3]

Ex, my daughter isn't yet two, and she hasn't been struck yet. I just don't think it would make any real lasting or effective reinforcement at that age.
Seeing red, man, sometimes, especially with blatent and outright disobedience, that really torques me. Tell her not to do something, see her look at me, see those wheels turning, then do it anyway!
I've learned really early growing up to contain my temper and stay in control. I had three older brothers that helped me remember. :roll:

I try to avoid total and complete blanket statements about anything, simply because I'm not a soothsayer and cannot read the future. Lifes a continuum, most everything falls somewhere between the two extremes.
I'll wait a day or two for another topic :twisted:

[EX Race Driver]

I have it set where it emails me. So I know as soon as someone replies to a thread I am subscribed to as long as I'm online. And I leave my pc connected pretty much all day... I HATE to hear a phone ring..Thats why so quick...and I'm not doing any house work today..Recovering from two broken ribs and a tooth extraction gone horribly bad...Look like I am chewing on a softball...and badly bruised

Pretty rough three days here in NC.

Broke ribs Sunday... Tooth pulled yesterday...and man do they hurt...trying not to take any good pain pills until the wifey gets home...trying to make it on Tylenol and Ibuprofen until then..Don't want to be groggy while taking care of Alex...

[Don-Dad]

Ouch Ex, that sucks! You must be in pain and not very tolerant of any remarks you disagree with, hehe!

[EX Race Driver]

it's not like that... i always think about what i type before i type it...this is just something i feel strongly about...

[Remington]

I don't spank in public. When I spank at home I make sure they understand the spanking. I spanked more at first but I don't have to do it as often these days. They fear the hand... lol

BUT, I think (like anything) don't abuse the power. I am a biggy on positive reinforcement. Make sure when the kids are good you smother them in bear hugs and kisses. The best remedy is to catch the kids in good acts and make them want to be good all the time because of the attention.

If you spank and just react to the bad moments and ignore the good moments then the child will soon do anything to get your attention and thus turn to bad behavior.

What has happened in general is parents are not spending enough time paying attention to their children and actually caring about the little good things. They focus on work and coming home and just making sure they don't do anything bad.

This is a reactive approach to parenting, whereas taking on a proactive approach results in a much better turnout.

Don't wait for the terrorists to attack and then act, be proactive and prevent it from ever happening... :wink:
(sorry too close to election day)

[jeffus]

So what do you guys spanking means? Let's work out some details on a definition.

Are we talking about an announced, trow-dropping, over the knee spectacle? Or what? Talked to the wife about this last night. She's totally against it. I've told her of the times I mentioned in earlier posts. And she reminded me that what I call a spanking might not mean the same to everybody. What I call a spanking is one pop on the bottom. More like an attention getter. She's not entirely thrilled about my actions but wouldn't classify it as a spanking. More like a spank.

I never thought before I had a kid that a 2 yr old was capable of reasoning skills. Boy, was I wrong. They know what's going on. So I absolutely will not bring violence into the family dynamic to settle a matter. Again, in my first 2 cases, a pat was an announcement that tossing the bathroom & refrigerator are no longer funny and Mommy & Daddy can no longer afford to clean-up & re-stock every morning.

My 3rd slap/spank, I think, fell into a different category. We tell the little ones to play nice, not to hit, or pull hair, etc. But they don't quite get the reason why. Well, the reason is - 1) they might hit back, and 2) you'll hurt the other person. #1 is obvious (to us, at least), #2 pertains to empathy (sympathy towards another's condition). Empathy is one of the last emotions to develop as they mature. But #1 isn't so obvious to them until someone does hit back. Luckily, it was me and I tempered my response. She was shocked, surprised, and we spent the whole afternoon discussing it. I told her what she did was wrong, what Daddy did was wrong, and that's the reason we don't hit other people. Hasn't taken a swipe at anybody since.

So I guess I'm for a spank. Against a spanking. Do I sound like the Democratic Presidential Candidate or what?

And I've received many spankings...most of them here!

[hockeydad]

Speaking of spanking - Red Sox just took out the Yanks in 7. Who's your daddy? now NY, NY.

wasn't going to sign in cause I'm on a hotel shared computer - color me paranoid, but this is a good topic.

Spanking is pretty easy to define. Hitting on the butt. Duration and strength matter in degree not definition.

First off I was spanked as a kid. By my dad. infrequently but with gusto. I turned out ok. Spanking didn't have any thing to do with it either way.

Second, as an ex preschool teacher I have a little different take on spanking. We of course could not do it. A big big no-no. So I learned all kinds of other techniques to solve behaviors problems. Many worked, some didn't, all took practice.

And I had some unreal kids. Head Start can (although not always) get some serious ones. I'm thinking of a bunch that would make your skin crawl. Truly messed up, off the wall kids. Oh and ex race d. you could pray till a halo glowed above your head and it wouldn't have changed these kids. They had big time problems without quick one size-fits-all solutions. Most kids left far better off then when they came, some didn't.

Third - I probably won't spank cause it only teaches what NOT to do. But that is one messy way to teach. Imagine if I gave you directions by telling you were NOT to go. Would take forever and be very annoying. relatively same theory. Plus I know a lot of other ways to get what I want. but I'm not perfect. The wife and I have talked about it a lot.

[floridamcmarion1]

My kids are the perfect example that every situation is different.

In my personal opinion it is quite justifiable to spank a child in certain circumstances for big offences.

That stated, I never spank my kids, no matter how much I might think they deserve it for a particular behavior. My kids came to me from foster care. Many of them not only experienced being spanked by their biological parents, but experienced what could best be called beatings. In particular my 9 y/o son took great abuse from his biological mother while being disciplined. This included getting a broken arm, having an oven knocked over onto him, having his feet placed in water hot enough to give him "sock" burns and having the palms of his hands placed on a hot stove, among other things. This all happened before he turned 6. He was routinely spanked for any small discipline problem. So, in his case, no matter how much I might think he deserves a spanking, I will not do it. I also believe in being consistant, so I won't spank any of the other kids either. Some of the others also were abused, though not all and none as bad as the one boy. Not to mention the fact that if I spank a foster child who is not yet adopted I would lose my foster license and all of my foster children would be removed from my home.

I'm simply trying to make the point clear that all situations are different in each of our homes. We all come from our own unique set of experiences and our own unique set of circumstances. Even some of our cultural backgrounds differ widely. What might work for one of us very effectively is not even an option worth considering for another one of us. That is what is so great about this forum. We can compare notes, learn from each other, and look at ourselves in a whole new perspective.

[Weston]

Totaly agree with Florida

Every situation and every family is different. So they take different approaches to discipline.

A lot of you have stated that you were spanked as children and you turned out all right. I'll agree that mild spanking is probably an effective tool when used properly. Effective in raising a well behaved child.

But I don't think discipline is the only issue here. I wonder how spanking versus not spanking affects the relationship between parent and child(at the time and later in life) I really do believe that this is just as important as the discipline issue.

Just a thought. It sounds like everyone here is a great and loving parent.

Any thoughts. I've got an open mind about this.